In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Sahmra Stevenson discuss:
Key Takeaways:
"It's an outdated notion that clients need to come and look at your ego behind you on your wall in order for you to be effective. Live your life, do what you need to do." — Sahmra Stevenson
Connect with Sahmra Stevenson:
Website: https://www.saslawoffices.com/ & https://www.officewithoutwalls.org/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Sahmra1331
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sahmra-a-stevenson-esq-52320128/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/officewithoutwalls/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SASLawOffices
Register for the MSBA Annual Legal Summit: https://www.msba.org/product/legal-summit-annual-meeting-2021/#registration
Featured CLE publications with highlights from MSBA’s 60+ library of original content: https://www.msba.org/featured-cle-publications/
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: Steve@Fretzin.com
Book: The Ambitious Attorney: Your Guide to Doubling or Even Tripling Your Book of Business and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
Sahmra Stevenson 0:00
When I was first starting, everybody was skeptical about this. So I felt like I had to go above and beyond to impress that this is a professional thing. I'm really being serious about this. So I would make sure I was communicating thoroughly with clients about what expectations should be. So welcome letters, being clear about how we're paperless office, those types of things. Those are best practices. But I also wanted to present it in a way that was impressive, and that made me look like I was more than just myself because at one point, it was just me.
Narrator 0:31
You're listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here's your host, Steve Fretzin!
Steve Fretzin 0:54
Hey, everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. I am Steve Fretzin and I'm so happy that you're with me today. As you know, this show is all about making you faster, better, stronger as a lawyer growing a law practice. And I try to bring on guests that are going to give you tactical tangible approaches and ideas and fresh takes on how to do that type of thing. If you've ever wondered more about what fredersen does, we really focus on two things. Number one is putting lawyers highly ambitious lawyers through a rigorous seven eight month program that combines coaching and training to essentially partner to help you not only grow your book of business, but maintain sustainability through the career being a lawyer. And the other thing that I do is I supervise mastermind groups for lawyers. I've got two different levels. I've got under a million and originations called the business developers Roundtable, where I put lawyers together to share ideas, hold each other accountable, work together as a team. And then also I've got the Rainmaker roundtables, their attorneys that are doing a million to up as high as 810 million dollars in business. And they obviously talk about, you know, what it's like to be a Rainmaker share ideas, best practices work through challenges, and I facilitate that, with all my years of experience doing that. So that's given a little bit of update on what Fretzin is up to these days, and let's get down to business. I've got a really interesting guest today with a really tremendous story. Sahmra Stevenson, she not only runs her own firm, but she really spends a lot of time talking and help attorneys on technology. Summer, how are you doing? I'm good morning, how are you doing really well doing really well. So give us a little background on what you do. And then I want to get into your story because I think it's a really interesting one.
Sahmra Stevenson 2:33
Sure I am. My name is Sahmra Stevenson, I'm the founder and CEO of SA Stevenson, law offices, wills on wheels Incorporated, and office without walls, and I am a legal practitioner in the state of Maryland, primarily practice in the areas of trust and estates, Family Law, litigation, and business law and formation I've been practicing for, believe it or not, 11 years now almost, and I've been out on my own and hung up my shingle. We celebrated five years on March 31.
Steve Fretzin 3:03
Congratulations. Wonderful, wonderful. And you know, you were sharing with me, you know, prior to us hitting the record button that you've got a story that's sort of a transformational story. And I think it's important for lawyers to hear other lawyers stories of challenge and struggle and overcoming those adversities. I'd love for you to get into the weeds on that a little bit. And then we can get into technology a little bit later. I'm sure you'll morph it into it as a part of the story. So if you wouldn't mind just giving that background from that point.
Sahmra Stevenson 3:31
It all yes, it all ties in it all weaves together. So I started out, I went to law school thinking I was going to be Power to the People fist in the air, you know, change the world and things went the way they went with the market in 2008. And I graduated 2010 ended up in Baltimore City clerking. And from there, you know, I thought I want to be a prosecutor. Then I saw autopsy photos. And I was like, maybe not a direction. I ended up working in big firm with Arnold and Porter down in DC, doing litigation prep, prep logs, those types of things, working crazy hours, seven to nine every day, that pressure to be there constantly. And what came with that in terms of the unhealthy lifestyle practices. And so I tried to take it to a midsize firm instead and got into the courtroom and did other things and thinking that would that would help me figure things out. But it didn't same kind of same kind of issues and also wasn't able to practice the way I wanted to practice and be of service to people that way I wanted to be of service. I clerked for Judge David, WD young and Baltimore City after I graduated law school, and he really impressed upon us that we are servants of the court. And so really being of service to people was a huge priority to me. And so working in the firms that I did, the rules that they had, where I can only work in the office and only work between nine and five. And so those really limited me and in terms of being of service. So when I went out on my own, there were a couple things that were a priority, both health and wellness, and then access to justice and being of service and taking things to the community. So that's kind of how I what gave birth to the things that you see now which are wheels on wheels and office without walls and so wheels on wheels. I found it in 2017. The idea being I wanted to help people get their state in order. I worked for a firm in Landover Maryland when I switched to that midsize firm where all of these services were paid for. So DC teachers or local 400, unions, those types of things, and so their estate planning packages were paid for, but it was still a struggle to get them in the office, even if I could get them in the office. And, you know, hopefully they had all the documents I needed, getting them to come back after all the documents were drafted to sign it was another headache. So I figured me being single, no kids, add don't like being at a desk anyway, wheels on wheels, I would take it to them. And so we were the first business model of first estate planning that model that was both virtual and mobile in the state of Maryland, and kind of have built on that. And then kind of we're uniquely positioned when the pandemic hit, actually, to be of service to to people. And then we've expanded now to other states as well, Connecticut and Georgia. We've been doing work, they're partnering with other attorneys, I'm not barred there just to be very clear. And so the other I captured the other focus the wellness part with my office without wall so I trademark office, that was funny story how that came about. Actually, I was I'm on social media a lot. So I do a lot of hashtags and whatever. And I was leaving court one day, and I would talk about how I'd work from wherever and use technology and post a lot about that. And so I was wearing a red suit at one my trial, and I was like red is my power color. And my office has no walls. And really, I was talking about the fact that my sunroof was open, and it was a beautiful day. And I was going to go work and apart from somewhere my office has no walls and people love, it just took off. So office that was that hashtag. And then it became a trademark. And the idea is to promote to use to promote the use of legal technology to both advocate for wellness for attorneys better quality of life, but also, again, the access to justice. So bringing things to clients making things easier for clients. I've traveled and kind of gone overboard and trying to make a point that it's feasible to practice without being at a desk because I think it's an outdated notion that clients need to come and look at your ego behind you on your wall in order for you to be effective. No. Do you live your life do what you need to do. So I fall of 2017 I traveled I hit four countries, listed four countries, 10 cities 90 days, and I didn't close the office once and then the following spring, I went up and down the West Coast for 22 days, didn't close the office. And so yeah, just been on an adventure doing that kind of thing. And I've kind of slowed down since the pandemic. But I've got a trip booked for Costa Rica next week. So we're going to get back on delivering that.
Steve Fretzin 7:31
So yeah, so you were way ahead of the curve. Everybody was thinking you got to be in an office and work there. And then the pandemic had now everyone's following your lead? Absolutely, absolutely. It's funny how the world works.
Sahmra Stevenson 7:43
Funny how the world works. And so yeah, I should I just so I am, I'm very clear about how it's changed my life, when I was stuck at that desk chained to that desk, not moving. I mean, literally the effects that it had on my body physically, were really harmful, but also mentally, psychologically, I was not in a good place. And so really freeing myself up is really saved my life and saved my ability to stay in this profession. So that's why I advocate for it so much.
Steve Fretzin 8:08
Yeah, and I'll just put in my two cents, I'm finding myself in front of, you know, sitting at a desk a lot more than I used to, and, you know, thank God for the standing desk, because the ability to move up and down and stretch and get some and move around a little bit is really, really critical. And then also scheduling time away from my desk to take a walk to move around to eat lunch to do things because I've actually found that I'm more like around double, I've doubled the number of appointments I take in a day. And that's wonderful. But you know, it's also, you know, hurting my ability to, you know, to move around, like I used to walk around the city, Chicago and go from place to place and all that I'm not doing that anymore. So I think it's really important for people to just be aware of their movement and how they're eating and how they're kind of paying attention to being at a desk. And because not everybody's you know, driving around. Absolutely. I'm not promoting the overworking experience. That was something I used to really try really drive home like I'm working all the time. But reality was what was behind the scenes as for double shots of espresso every day. And then you know, like a bottle of mirlo at night, you know, so that was every day. not healthy. So Not at all. Not at all. And so let's talk a little bit about technology, because you mentioned social media, and I want to hear what you're doing on social media, and how that's going. And then I want to also you talk about it in technology, automation, the things that you've learned is a virtual lawyer running around that has really made your life easier and your time manage more effectively. So let's start if you would, you know with the No, I forgot what the hell I was saying. Nah. Alright, let's talk about technology. And then we'll come back and when my brain gets back on track.
Sahmra Stevenson 9:41
No worries, technologies. Yeah, so technology. We are a I'm a Volvo. We're a hybrid office. So there's a brick and mortar and Columbia used to be in Greenbelt. And there we are virtual and mobile and that's we're unique in that my staff is nowhere near me. My senior paralegal lives two hours from me and lesbi Maryland. My estate planning paralegals in Landover my client services directors also out in lesbi, before the pandemic, we would we would meet once a month for family dinner in person. But we work remotely. And you know, I've kind of built my office and people ask me, where do you get your paralegals to get your paralegals. And I can go down another tangent with that. But I've kind of operated with the philosophy of if you build it, they will come. And so I've created opportunities for people to step into if they have the why to want to be a part of having the freedom. So we operate very well together remotely, we use technology to stay in sync. And I talk a lot about workflow technology. And so especially right now, with people going remote and having in struggling to figure out how to organize their teams, I talk a lot about things like Monday, COMM And Asana, the most common ones, obviously, like Microsoft Teams, because everybody knows about Microsoft. But there are other options. One that's very common that people use on their phone for personal organization and workflow is Trello. But they have a wider base and use for business purposes as well, slack Basecamp for larger teams, but that workflow technology and really utilizing that there has been an up tick, it's 72% and increase in technical legal technology. But it's mostly rooted around creating this remote work environment or creating, you know, these campfires or creating this, this work culture, in this situation where we're actually physically not around each other people are trying to pivot and do that right now. So I talked a lot about how that can help keep things visible. A lot of the one of the major pitfalls with remote work and having remote teams function is keeping work visible. Not only does it prevent overlap, or wasted time, but actually just morale and people knowing who's working on what, because if you're not getting credit, for all the elbow work you put in, you're less likely to do that again. And then you know, resentments build when somebody thinks, oh, she's just chillin over there, but that's really not the case, I'm really busted, you know, someone's really busting their butt.
Steve Fretzin 11:54
So, right. And the other thing that I now remember is, and we'll come back to in a minute, because I want to finish on technology, but was about some of the things you're doing on social media. And just to have a quick chat about that. But let me ask you about your time management. And I've had, you know, a number of guests on to talk about automation and time management. And again, you know, time is money. So what are there in addition to the to the project management like Monday comm and some of the other ones that you mentioned, are there other automation tools that you use to be efficient with your time?
Sahmra Stevenson 12:25
Yes, sir. So document automation, I just did a presentation. And some of the what we're getting what we what we're presenting on at the msba annual meeting and legal summit is about this document automation is a great way to end ties right into the freeing yourself up to get away from your desk. But document automation workflows. automated workflows are what's a good example that I can give you. Okay, so drip email campaigns, for example, when we're onboarding a client or virtually and one thing that I was really serious about when I got out there, because now that virtual offices are more accepted, it's not some, maybe it's not so much. But when I was first starting, everybody was skeptical about this. So I felt like I had to go above and beyond to impress that this is a professional thing. I'm really being serious about this. So I would make sure I was communicating thoroughly with clients about what expectations should be. So welcome letters, being clear about how we're paperless office, those types of things. Those are best practices. But I also wanted to present it in a way that was impressive, and then made me look like I was more than just myself because at one point, it was just me. So we onboarding a client now, and instead of me recreating documents over and over again, which takes endless amount of time. And you can also run into mistakes where you're cutting and pasting the wrong name or just forgetting to change something. Our document automation now allows us to hit one board, it's one button, it says client onboarding. And emails are automated, I mean, are generated and they fill in the clients name, same information for every client attach a document, which is a welcome letter. And then it's a drip email. So they get one email. And then 15 minutes later, they get another email telling them how to set up their Clio account. For example, Clio was our firm management software. And then 15 minutes later, they get another email. So it's as if somebody is sitting there, onboarding them, they get that feel, it doesn't matter to them in terms of the overall effect, they get all the information they need. And they get that feel that they're being cared for and handled in a very customer service way in a very professional way. And I not using my time to do that.
Steve Fretzin 14:19
And I apologize, I may have missed this. But the drip, the ability to do that drip campaign to onboard or even I'm sure could be used for client retention and loyalty and sending out messages and stuff. What's the software that you're using for that?
Sahmra Stevenson 14:32
So originally, it was Alexkata when I purchased it first in 2017 lexicon then Clio bought that so now it's Clio grow. Okay, clear brothers. Creo. Clio grow. And that's different from Clio manage, they usually sell in packages, but Clio grow. My case also does that practice Panther does it a lot of them have that capability. You just have to go look for it. I like Clio grow because it's so easy to use, or maybe it's because I've been using it this whole time. I just want to point out that we use we do document He signatures through Clio grow as well. So when I'm sending out a document for a signature or anything, I don't know if any people have used DocuSign, or hellosign Clio grow actually utilizes hellosign, which is another great, awesome software that I could go down another road with the Clio grow. So I can, I can, I can bring up a document prepared for this signature. And then when we get to the part where you're generating the email, you can have custom emails, depending on the type of document you're sending. So we have a custom email for a retainer, which would be for a family law case, or an engagement letter for an estate planning case, or a custom email for if I just want you to review it and sign off on the fact that you're saying stating this under oath, you know, that kind of thing. So all of those things are already programmed. And it just makes it much faster and more efficient.
Steve Fretzin 15:43
Yeah. And I'll add something to it. And I know, I'm sure you're familiar with this, too. But I've been using acuity, which is also like calendly, for scheduling meetings, all different kinds of meetings. So I've got, like for this podcast, there was one that you filled out. And then for people that want to meet with me for like evaluation of their law practice, that's a link that I have. So I'm essentially putting links in my emails, and then I'm out of the scheduling process. It just happens. And if it doesn't, I get notified. They know that they didn't schedule, but that for me, I've been going back and forth. How's Wednesday? Well, Wednesday is no good, how's Thursday, and you go back and forth and back forth, if you're doing that with all your clients, all your prospects, all your strategic partners, you know, networking and all that you're going to be just tied to that. So that's something I would add, if you use anything like that.
Sahmra Stevenson 16:27
Absolutely. So we do lease calendly. And I'll say that, and this might tie and this might tie right into the social media. But yes, we so my paralegal no longer has to call and figure out how to schedule every individual person who wants to talk to me, if you have a question, and she can't answer it. She just says, here's the link schedule a time to talk to the attorney. And as you know, you can control when they can book which days what times what time slots, and you can calendars, also put a plug in for book like a boss. Another option? Yeah, they are great for so they have I like them because you get your own kind of landing page. So you can customize each of the appointments and do different landing pages with pictures. And you can kind of just more of a business front field than with with calendly. So book like a boss. And we also put those links directly into our advertising. So flipping over to social media, you're asking what are we doing on social media, all of our ads have the link for them to schedule their own console, pay it not even involved or schedule an exploratory call if they don't want to pay for one. It's not what the attorney.
Steve Fretzin 17:26
It's fairly go. Right. Right. Right. Well listen, you know, in in so before, again, we go to social media, because I want that we'll we'll sort of wrap up on that. But any other tools that you're using, or that you recommend or talk about as it relates to automation and time management, we kind of covered the gamut.
Sahmra Stevenson 17:42
We covered the the main ones, I we just started using something called pipe file for collecting documents from clients, because as you if anyone working in a field where there's discovery, and you're collecting discovery from a client, there's documents, I love pipe file, because basically you put in requests, it sends them out to the client, and you put in the request individually. So for example, tax returns, boom, paystubs, boom. And the client, when they get the email, they get a screen for each item that you're requesting, they can upload it or they can skip, if they skip, they get reminders, they get reminded every 123 days, whatever you set it to be, you can create lists that are ones that you use over and over again. So in family law, we always be for the scheduling conference need the W two the tax return, or whatever they want whatever's on that list for this scheduling order. So the pile goes out as soon as we get that notice. And then we don't have to worry about collecting them after that.
Steve Fretzin 18:32
Nice, nice. I like it. So let's flip them to social media. What are you doing on social media, and how's that impacting your business?
Sahmra Stevenson 18:40
Who social media I am, I created a YouTube channel during the pandemic, the idea being to just share my experiences with living an office without walls, lifestyle, I consider that to be living freely. So living and working, really creating an environment that works for you so that you can thrive. And so I tell I talk a lot about I was trying to be funny at first, I talked about my quarantine garden. And I was skipping with watering cans and all kinds of stuff, which is a lot of fun. But it's turned into talking about emotional wellness, well being work life balance, all of those things, vegan cooking, even if you do I get a little goofy sometimes. And then you know on social media, I share I share real life experiences. So you can look back at one of my videos from a couple years ago, June 1 is when I celebrate stop, I quit drinking June 1 2015. That's a big part of my wellness journey. And I so I live out loud because I truly believe that you're only as sick as your secrets. So I talk about those experiences I talk about, I'm honest about my struggles. I think that's the feedback I get the most and I just as much as it's for people to read, it's for me and to make sure that I'm okay. And what I find is that I connect with people through sharing my experiences and I get inspired and hopefully that's hopefully that's what you're asking me.
Steve Fretzin 19:52
But I mean, I think what I'm hearing is that you're being authentic and you're being real about yourself, your life, your struggles. wellness, and sharing that with other people not only makes them feel better, and them see that, hey, I'm not alone in this, that there's other people that struggle like I do. And they can, you know, take comfort in that and learn from it. Right?
Sahmra Stevenson 20:12
Absolutely. And it's led to another business venture, which is what I'm doing is transformation coaching. So I love what you're doing with a business coach, I call it transformation coaching, because I'm trying to inspire people to just transform to happier lifestyles, and that can be in all areas. But so si s fit practice is my most recent adventure with transformation coaching, I've really been enjoying that.
Steve Fretzin 20:33
Well, very cool. And so people are going to be able to see you not live but virtually at the annual legal summit coming up in May. That's being that's in, you know, in summerlands, in the Maryland State Bar.
Sahmra Stevenson 20:43
Maryland State Bar Association annual meeting and legal summit brings together attorneys from all over the state all over the legal profession for multiple days of continuing legal education workshops, presentations from Madeleine Albright this year, it's a great experience, even virtually just to connect, and they have ways for networking and events going on virtually as well. I think even karaoke or something like that, so.
Steve Fretzin 21:08
Okay, so really cool. So that you're going to be speaking there, along with, you know, 50, 60 other presenters and helping lawyers with all kinds of different, you know, areas of legal education.
Sahmra Stevenson 21:18
Absolutely. I'll be presenting on a panel that's talking about technology and the law firm of the future. So it's a point counterpoint presentation, talking about artificial intelligence, how that how that affects the lawyer in all areas of practice, and what that looks like for the future of law.
Steve Fretzin 21:35
Okay, got it. And in case you're keeping track at home with this interview, summer's email is chimed five times since we started. So I'm just I just find it funny. And if anyone's keeping count, like I was, but I make a little checkmarks on my paper. And I'm just kidding. I didn't do any of that. But anyway, it listed, I think you're terrific. I think your story's amazing. I think the way that you're leveraging technology is inspiring. And it really goes to show how much better technology can make our lives. And there's things about technology that we all dislike, certainly. But at the end of the day, there's things that are going on right now that have never happened in the history of the world, or our country or a legal profession. And you've got to jump on the bandwagon if it's something that's going to improve your life and make things more automated and easy. So that you can have the balance. And so I think that's really what you've figured out and what you're sharing, and it's quite inspirational. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. So and thank you for being on the show and being the guest and hopefully people can show up for the legal summit. I'll have all the details about the legal summit in the show notes. So please sign up for that and check it out. And just thanks again for being on the show. I appreciate you hanging out with me. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. It's been a good day. Yeah, no, I agree. And Hey everybody, thanks for listening to us talk today. Hopefully you got a couple of good takeaways on technology automation, etc. And you know the goal here to be that lawyer someone who's confident organized in a skilled Rainmaker. Hey, take care be well be safe.
Narrator 23:06
Thanks for listening to be that lawyer. Life Changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve's website fretzin.com. For additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today's episode, check out today's show notes.