In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Regina Leslie discuss:
Key Takeaways:
"People don’t buy what you do, they buy why you do it. You can’t sell that convincingly with a slide as much as you can with your voice and who you are." — Regina Leslie
Connect with Regina Leslie:
Website: reginaleslieconsulting.com
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/regina-leslie-39b4a615/
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: Steve@Fretzin.com
Book: The Ambitious Attorney: Your Guide to Doubling or Even Tripling Your Book of Business and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
Regina Lesie 0:00
Also, you know, a lot of meetings I've heard from my clients say that their clients won't put the video on. And that allows people to multitask. So asking others Hey, can we put the video on so that we can have the the best listening and communicating experience possible is a fine request to make.
Narrator 0:24
You're listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here's your host, Steve Fretzin.
Steve Fretzin 0:46
Hey, everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. My name is Steve Fretzin. And welcome to the show. hope everybody's doing well and staying safe out there. Just a reminder, if you haven't been to my website, frets and calm, I have some great articles, videos and access to my podcast where you can hear from great rainmakers and marketing and digital experts. That's, you know, the kinds of people I have on my show, and you're in for a treat today. I've got Regina Leslie, of Regina Leslie consulting, who's just an amazing presentation coach and in someone that that has actually, you know, been been a good supporter of mine. I appreciate that. So How you doing, Regina?
Regina Lesie 1:25
I am well, how
Steve Fretzin 1:26
Are you? Good, good, good. It's good to see you and, and to hear from you. And obviously I do limited justice to your bio. So do you want to go back in and give us a little Reader's Digest on that,
Regina Lesie 1:39
I can definitely give you the Reader's Digest version of my mom and dad's version of the Reader's Digest. So, so my background involves a bit of a pivot. So I started in the performing arts. I'm a violinist and a singer and an actor. And I performed all over the world, doing theater and, and performing as a singer and as a violinist. And I really loved that. And I realized one day that I could affect and help so many more people, if I expanded what I did into the non performing arts world. So I learned how to be expressive and to be dynamic, and to listen, and how to use my body and how to use my voice and to be concise and clear. And all these things I realized are things that people in the business world, really need more of people in education need that. And so I started to talk to people and I got involved in the healthcare field and, and then I transitioned to the corporate world where I started to coach people on becoming more dynamic and more concise, and to be better storytellers. And to also just handle difficult situations, in the end interpersonal issues with, you know, being better listeners and, and knowing how to respond more concisely.
Steve Fretzin 3:12
Yeah, that's great. And so, um, now that you, you know, have been working in pivoting into the space where you're helping people, what are some of the typical challenges that you're seeing people have as it relates to presenting and just putting their best foot forward when they meet people?
Regina Lesie 3:30
I think the first thing is confidence. We are the most confident when we're with people that we know and who know us. And that is the challenge. With business, oftentimes, they're people who are new to us, or who we might have a power dynamic with. And so confidence is first being aware of what you have to offer as a whole person, and bringing that to the table, not just oh, this is my experience in this field, but it's bringing all of yourself of things are being concise, and connecting to your message so that you're not just talking like this all the time, and very boring, but you're speaking dynamically and with energy.
Steve Fretzin 4:13
Yeah, I think I think those two things, you know, initially, you mentioned confidence and, you know, business development, and it's not something lawyers are trained for in law school, or, you know, they kind of pick it up on their own or maybe they have a mentor, but, you know, they can be very confident in a in a courtroom. But when it comes to meeting with a new General Counsel or a new prospective client, the confidence may not, you know, be there right from the get go. So what are what are a couple things that you that you work with them on to develop that confidence?
Regina Lesie 4:43
I think the first thing is helping them to focus on the other person in the room. It's the self focus that gets in our way, the little messages that we hear in our heads while we're in a conversation with One means that we're actually not in the now we're not being present. And the more I can focus on you, for example, and really listen to you, and be interested in you, then I'm not focusing on myself. And the anxiety immediately drops.
Steve Fretzin 5:18
Yeah, and I think that's what's going on in a lot of cases that they're, they're thinking about the big pitch, they're thinking about, right, how they're going to present a, you know, a reason to engage. And what they're forgetting is, is you mentioned being present, but also, you know, being prepared with questions and being prepared to listen and be be in the moment to your point, and how do we react without having to think about what we're going to say next. Right, always thinking about what am I gonna say next? What am I gonna say next? Right.
Regina Lesie 5:49
And that, again, is being in your head, right? instead of listening. I think also, just slowing down. And being the king or the queen of your thoughts, is really helpful. just slow down.
Steve Fretzin 6:03
Yeah, I think we all need to do that. What about the concise part? I mean, you mentioned that are people just too wordy, or people just dragging things out? Both,
Regina Lesie 6:12
I think it's also that we think we have to fill all the time with instead of using pause, we use fillers, um, you know, just, and they all take away from my message, and from the power of my message, and from someone's confidence in me because I start to look a little junior or sound a little Junior. So taking away those fillers, and then knowing exactly, you know, what those questions might be, and then having a structure is, do I know what, what my main thought is? Do I know why I'm saying what I'm saying? Having those those answers, I think, help a lot. And then knowing what the main points are, to what my message is?
Steve Fretzin 7:00
Well, right. And I think one of the things that I work on every day with lawyers is breaking things down into a process, you know, because because we can follow steps, right? We all can follow steps, whether it's it's a recipe, or it says you're a musician, right? You can't go to the third note, you've got it the first note. And so the process of, of how am I prepared to ask questions and build relationship? And then maybe step two is, how do I set an agenda or a game plan for the meeting? So that I can control it with them feeling like they're in control for exam, right? And then what is the what I call discovery, but what's the questioning? What are the questions I want to ask? And where are those questions supposed to lead? Right. And so being not only prepared as an expert in your area, but I think also, having a process to follow takes away a lot of the guessing and a lot of the filler that that might happen in a meeting where it might be unnecessary.
Regina Lesie 7:55
Right, right. And I think knowing your audience and doing the homework asking Who are they? What is their opinion of you have your you know of your presentation? And what what is their background? Having those answers ahead of time really helps to take some of the guesswork out so that you're not giving them information that they don't need, or or that you so that you know their presumptions or assumptions.
Steve Fretzin 8:20
And I know that you are big into you know, body language and just reading people you mentioned being in the moment but but reading people as you're engaging them, not only how you're coming across, but also watching their body and watching their eyes and their face and say and what are some things that you usually, you know, consult your clients on relation to nonverbal.
Regina Lesie 8:42
So, first of all, when it comes to virtually because that his or her world right now, I try to counsel them and having a really clean but interesting background. And I try to most importantly, get them to speak so that their eyes are looking into the lens. So even though our listeners can't see that, I know that you can see that when I look at you through the lens, it looks like I'm looking directly into your eyes. versus if I look at your image. It looks like looks like I'm you see it now you're shaking your head. Yes, yeah, it's such a difference. And it takes a little training. But when you're saying something important, or want to make sure that the other person knows that you're present, looking into that lens makes such a huge difference.
Steve Fretzin 9:29
And I have to tell you, from you know, you, you've taught me that and I've been doing much even though I occasionally stray. I've been doing that much more with my clients and with the people I'm talking with and it's just it's disappointing though, that they don't do it back. So I'm looking at they're seeing my eyes look right at them, but then they're looking down, you know, in the middle of the screen and so you know, it's a one It seems like a one way street.
Regina Lesie 9:52
And you can pass on the knowledge why I am
Steve Fretzin 9:55
I mean I am you know trying to teach my clients that and instructing them but You know, at the end, it's it's tricky. But But I think that's really important. So any other tips on for example, the virtual meeting? Because now that you're on the topic of virtual meetings, we can't stop. What other things so so are looking in the camera, give us a couple other gems that you're working on?
Regina Lesie 10:16
Sure. I think in meetings, for one, I think, because there are so many, they tend to last too long. So I think shortening meetings, if possible, is really terrific. I think also, getting away from too many slides is a great idea. Because as soon as you put up a slide, all of the people in the meeting are going to be looking at the slide, and they're not going to be listening to you. It's just the way it goes. So in my opinion, put the slide up only if necessary. And as soon as you've hit what is on the slide, and it should only be what you're saying not anything more, get away from it.
Steve Fretzin 10:59
And so do you like take it? So you're screen sharing, obviously for that? Do you then unscreened share and just kind of go back and forth? So that again, you're taking control of
Regina Lesie 11:08
exactly, exactly, because the trust and and if you're trying to sell an idea, it's you. It's your person? It's the why of your why you're doing something, it's not the what really is, you know, I've said this before, to some folks that people don't buy what you do they buy why you do it, and you can't sell that convincingly with a slide as much as you can with your voice and who you are.
Steve Fretzin 11:37
Yeah, that's really interesting. I actually had a speaker talk to a group of mine, not that long ago. And he was he just totally captured them and captured their attention. Yeah, he's got an amazing background and everything else, but he didn't need any slides in they didn't want slides. They just wanted to hear him tell stories and hear him share his experiences. And he was very authentic and creative and engaging. And that blue, the blue the roof off of any slides he could have put up.
Regina Lesie 12:11
Right, right. And having the content is important. And but that can be shared aside, or something you know, but that's that should never be the bulk of the meeting. It's, I mean, you're gonna put your audience asleep for a while.
Steve Fretzin 12:25
Yeah. Right. And we want to, we want to make sure that we're staying engaged in and again, if someone's on 7, 8, 9, whatever, zoom meetings a day, you know, you're the last heaven forbid, and they're not engaged, they're just about to fry their brain, you know, that you have to step up and really make sure you're connecting with them. And it could be the difference between getting the business or not getting the business. Right,
Regina Lesie 12:46
Right. And that means more energy and more enthusiasm, even more than you would think. Especially over over zoom, because you're two dimensional, and you just have to go above and beyond.
Steve Fretzin 12:58
Right. Any other thoughts or things that you provide, as far as information on on zoom, I think you've given us a couple of good nuggets, just want to make sure we're not missing something.
Regina Lesie 13:08
I think also getting people to participate is really helpful. Making the meeting collaborative. Yeah, sharing control of your if you are going to share a PowerPoint or screen sharing control that so people can can can make a you know, adjustments to it, having polls, anything, calling on people, so that you get people talking, saying, you know, in five minutes, I'm going to ask everybody acts, so that people stand up and go, Oh, I gotta pay attention. The participation is really important in zoom. So it's not just one person talking the whole time.
Steve Fretzin 13:46
Yeah, that's really great. Again, I think that that these are the kinds of things that could be game changers as it relates to how people are really not only connecting, but also making sure that they're, you know, not seeing people fade off and start new multitasking, because that's what's going on a lot of people looking down and yeah, you know, yeah, my 13 year old is is in office behind me in school, and, you know, he's got ADHD like the rest of us. And, you know, but I just imagine like, what is it like for him to be just listening to teachers go on and on all day with that, you know it, but hopefully they're getting trained on how they interact?
Regina Lesie 14:20
Well, they're not as much as you might think I
Steve Fretzin 14:23
yeah, I think, yeah, to figure that out on their own too.
Regina Lesie 14:24
So yeah, sadly, but also, you know, a lot of meetings I've heard some of my clients say that their clients won't put the video on and that allows people to multitask. So asking others Hey, can we put the video on so that we can have the the best listening and communicating experience possible is a fine request to make?
Steve Fretzin 14:47
Yeah, no, that's great. That's great. So let me ask you because you know, outside of zoom, you do a lot of, you know, trainings on presentation skills for we're going to be going back live right and getting back In front of people, are there particular things that you teach your clients on is it relates to presenting to a large room of people? Is that different than a small group of people, and what are some things that you usually walk them through
Regina Lesie 15:13
I think the size of the audience is not such a big game changer. If you have amplification, then you don't have to worry as much about the power of your voice. But when I am talking to in a room, that's at least you know, 20, by 20, I'm going to speak with more, more volume, I'm going to speak slower, I'm going to enunciate more. I think eye contact is also really important. It's easy to scan a room, just look all over the place when we're speaking. And it's much more effective. To speak one word or sorry, one person, one thought, one person, one thought or a group of people, one thought, a group of people one thought so that you're not just looking all over the place, it increases your ability to hold your ground. And it also increases others confidence in you. So because it looks like you're really focusing on them, when you take the time, it also slows you down. And that's what we do when we're when we're anxious. We speed.
Steve Fretzin 16:23
Yeah, yeah, I can definitely see that and have done that. And so I think the other pieces, and we going back to this, again, is just, you know, being really prepared, I think, you know, when I present all the time, and when it's a newer subject for me, I do need to slow down. And it's sometimes I can, you know, go off on a tangent, but with things that I know really well, like I've presented 5, 10, 20 times on in different capacities, you know, it always comes off really, really well.
Regina Lesie 16:51
Right, right, right? Well, of course, the more comfortable you are with your material, the more practice you've had. But if you've not had practice presenting in a room that's bigger or not at that amount of people, you've got to practice it somehow get into a big room. And just imagine there being all kinds of people and do it. Do it five times.
Steve Fretzin 17:10
Yeah. That's great. That's great
Regina Lesie 17:12
Use gestures, you know?
Steve Fretzin 17:13
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly, exactly. And I think people, you know, really, I mean, they haven't been through any kind of training, most people have how to present effectively. So they go out and they present. And they, you know, read their slides, or they don't enunciate or they they don't use their hands to communicate a point. They don't use the nonverbal. And I think it's a real misstep, because the difference between a good speaker and an okay speaker is the difference between getting business or having people line up to talk to you when you're done at a conference, for example, or people just leaving the room and going next.
Regina Lesie 17:48
Right, right, right, right. I think another little tip is to start strongly, start with something, start with a story or start with a vision or start with something that grabs attention, or that is surprising, something humorous, anything that's unusual and exciting, I think is a great way to start a meeting that has lots of people.
Steve Fretzin 18:11
Nice, nice. Well, since you mentioned unusual or different. I was thinking I normally asked this, or sometimes asked this at the beginning of my show, but under Bob, we're kind of coming towards the end. And I wanted to say was there something unusual, interesting or different about you that most people don't know about either your background or something that you're open to sharing?
Regina Lesie 18:31
Sure. What should I choose?
Steve Fretzin 18:33
Put you on the spot a little bit?
Regina Lesie 18:35
You know, I have so many to choose from. I will tell you that I have practice Flying Trapeze.
Steve Fretzin 18:44
Really? Okay, so like up in the air 50 feet
Regina Lesie 18:50
Yes, exactly. Exactly. there's a there's a school up on the north side of Chicago. And I have taken many many, many, many classes. And it's not doing in session right now. But but I absolutely adore it. It's the closest to flying. I think that I've been and I've done I've been done skydiving. I've done ultralight I've done hang gliding. I've done it all. Yeah, but the Flying Trapeze is something totally different and takes a lot of strength.
Steve Fretzin 19:22
So when you let go that first time and release from the trapeze to go to the other one, what does that feel like?
Regina Lesie 19:31
It's a great feeling. Remember we are on cables. And that for me, it really it's I'm focused on wanting to do they call it the trick, wanting to do it well and successfully so that I so that the person can catch me and if my timing is just off because my technique is off, then I missed the catch and that's always our darnit
Steve Fretzin 19:53
Then you're hanging from the line saying what if
Regina Lesie 19:55
No if they let you go with the cables and you just gently follow into the, into the wall, you fall into that.
Steve Fretzin 20:02
Okay, well that is very interesting. Yeah, you've got quite a quite a background in the performing arts between acting and singing and violin and doing commercials and yet really, really sets you up well to be a coach and a consultant for lawyers for people that are looking to take your presentations to the next step next level. And I appreciate you taking some time to kind of share your best practices with with my audience.
Regina Lesie 20:26
Oh, it's my pleasure, Steven, it's so good to see you again.
Steve Fretzin 20:29
It is good to see you as well. And again, I hope you know we can get together face to face soon and and do some networking and you know, get you back in front of some clients of mine soon as well.
Regina Lesie 20:39
Awesome. That sounds great.
Steve Fretzin 20:40
Yeah. Hey, listen, everybody. I just want to also thank you for spending some time with Regina and I today. And again, the goal is to continue to provide value for you in learning, business development, marketing, branding, etc. It really you know, be that lawyer someone who is confident organized in a skilled Rainmaker. I hope all take care and stay safe be well.
Narrator 21:05
Thanks for listening to be that lawyer. Life Changing strategies and resources for building a successful law practice. Visit Steve's website Fretzin.com for additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today's episode, check out today's show notes.