In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Ken Hardison discuss:
Key Takeaways:
"When you get a referral, take the time to write a handwritten thank you note." — Ken Hardison
Connect with Ken Hardison:
Website: pilmma.org
Book: amazon.com/Under-Promise-Over-Deliver-Preeminent/dp/1599324989
Show: pilmma.org/grow-your-law-firm-podcast
YouTube: youtube.com/channel/UCckDYWg4ozuImSn5-ab5hAQ
Instagram: instagram.com/pilmma
Twitter: twitter.com/PILMMAorg
Facebook: facebook.com/PILMMA
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/pilmma & linkedin.com/in/kenhardison
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: Steve@Fretzin.com
Book: The Ambitious Attorney: Your Guide to Doubling or Even Tripling Your Book of Business and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
Ken Hardison 0:00
Why are you spending all that money trying to convince people who you are, you're a good fit when you got all these other people that could be referring your cases or repeat business. And I just think it's a, it's ludicrous and it's just really wasting so much money, and energy.
Narrator 0:21
You're listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here's your host, Steve Fretzin!
Steve Fretzin 0:43
Hey, everybody, welcome to BE THAT LAWYER. My name is Steve Fretzin and as the announcer mentioned and this show, as you know, is all about being that lawyer someone who is confident in organized in a skilled Rainmaker, well, how the heck does that happen? Well, that's the point of the show. And so I have a such a treat for you today. I'm going to get your mind to be blown a little bit today. But I've got Ken Hardison. He is the founder and president of PILMA. And what does that stand for? Well, it stands for powerful, innovative legal marketing and Management Association. How's it going Ken?
Ken Hardison 1:14
Doing great, man appreciate you inviting me.
Steve Fretzin 1:16
Yeah, my pleasure. My pleasure. I've heard such great things about you from from people I trust and respect. And so I was excited to meet you and have you on the show and get your thoughts on things. Do me a favor, you've got a crazy, crazy, awesome background. And I'd love for you just to take a few minutes and share how you came to be you.
Ken Hardison 1:35
Okay. Well, I was just like everybody else for the first 12, 14 years of my life. I graduated in 82. from law school without with this firm, game partner. And we were just do any marketing, just Yellow Pages and just word of mouth. And then in like, from 84 to i was growing 10%, 15% a year. Then something happened in 93. We kind of leveled out 94 started going down a little bit. And I was sitting there thinking to myself, and then my partners, I said, you know, we're better lawyer. I'm better lawyer than I was 10 years ago, I'm getting better results. I know more people What the hell is going on? And I had a general practice, where I didn't do everything, but I did criminal PA, workers comp and social security. And then I had partners that did other stuff. But I went to court one day to do a DWI. You know, and I don't remember his name. But I do remember what was actually like, I'll just call him Joe. He walked into the courtroom on crutches. And I said, What happened? Joe? He said, Man, I got t-boned by them transfer truck. I said, Well, you know, we do them cases. He said, Yeah. But I saw this girl on TV. And I said he must be good. So I hired him. And I knew the guy. And the guy was a great marketer, but he was never tried a case. And he still has never tried a case. And he's made a load of money, but, and I went back to my partners, and I drove it back, I went and dry this case, I wanted to DWI. Now I've run back. And as I said, we got to change the times are changing. I said, You know, I said, it's all about perception. You know, you can have the best mousetrap in the world. But if people don't know about you, they're not going to come. They're not going to buy the mousetrap. And, and we did really good quality work. We had really good quality in a cloud service. So I went back with my partners and Neda said, No, it's unprofessional, we're not going to do it, not us, I left and left in the 96. I argued with him for like two years. And then I just had enough. And I'm still a little buffed up. And when I was deceased now, but in other words, a DA now they didn't make it. I mean, you know, because they didn't change with the times. But that's their story about bad. Let's do like, a lot. But I had no idea what to do. And so what I did was, I started, I went out to three or four lawyers, I went down to John Morgan. He was like really big. He was like a Innovator of different lawyers in different states in the second eye shadow you for two or three days and just pick your brains did that. Then I hired a guy named Dan Kennedy, who is a marketing genius. And then also with Jay Abraham, who is it marketing genius. And they're different in their own ways, but they brought a lot to the table. And I studied those and I went to seminars, had nothing to do with legal marketing. But I took it back. And I tried it and I'd applied the law course got the ethics to deal with. And some of it worked and some of it didn't work. But what worked when I found that work, I turned a turn to the heater, you know what I'm saying? Careful, I poured money into it. Yeah. And went from me and three staff in 96 to 2002. I had 13 lawyers and 47 staff. And we were doing you know, within like two and a half a million or like 8 million and just get this kept going. I mean, you know, and we do a lot of innovative things. So like I said, I tried I was always like the other way. Try stuff outside the box. And you know, half the time it didn't work, I'm gonna be honest with you. But the half time it did work when it did, I was way ahead of the pack. And then everybody would catch up and copy me and that's okay. That's fine. Because I'd always be able to stop males, you know, by the time they figured out what I was doing. And I was, you know, two steps ahead. And Bill really practiced, and I just got up one morning, I said, I'm not, you know, and built this thing, but I get bored. I said, I want to, I want to do something else, you know, I don't know what I want to do. So I sold out to my partners and moved down to Myrtle Beach. And then I was gonna, I said, well just retire. I got a lot of money for, for category like me, I was raised real poor, so you don't take a lot. I don't need the arts and learjets you know, I got so bored after six months playing golf edition, you know, three times a week, then I said I wanted to do certain so I started PILMA and, and you know, and it just started growing man, it just like with, you know, with, like, from the first year to the second year, it grew like triple and quadruple, and then it just kind of took off on its own. And I was kind of innovator I was first one that started masterminds for lawyers, and, you know, now everybody's doing it. And that's fine. I mean, you know, I'm used to people. And it's fine. I mean, I mean, there'll be people that like me, and there's gonna be people that don't like me, and that's fine. You know, just like lawyers always said, you know, everybody used to be worried. I said, there's enough business out there for everybody. I said, it really is. Everybody gets worried. I said, but you but you don't sit at home and look at a TV and it's got to happen, you got to get out there. And you know, you get out into the fields. I mean, you know, you got to you got to plant your grass, you got to you know, you got to pay to sit at home. I mean, you know, you got to take action. So I did that. And then I was at I was at a conference and some lawyers said, Well, I don't have the money you hear because I'm bored, like a half a million dollars when I started and went on TV. And like, I went from taking like 20 cases in a month to like 120, in like 90 days. Back then it was easy. If you get on TV it now it's harder. But he said I said what happens. He says 6000, I said I can do it with 6000. So I started a security practice down here in South Carolina, cuz I went last year, two years, I had it to 800 cases. And I figured out some innovative ways to get cases for less than $200 apiece. And I won't buy leads I was doing to myself. And I'll get into the detail of that. But I I said okay, I proved I could do it. And I sold it for seven figures. You know, mostly a bigger, it's not as big I had it. The other one was big. This one wasn't that big. You know, the other one I had 1000s of cases. But if we just kept doing this, I mean, you know, and the reason that I started mastermind to start with is is a back in 2006. I started masterminds for I started PILMA is that some lawyers had this thing where they call it a round table, and it was before to AAJ, back then it was called the National Trial Lawyers Association, but now it's AAJ, American Association justice. And he invited me to be in that Roundtable, you know, the day before the beat, sorry, and I said in my 1400, I remember exactly $1,400 in 2005. And, you know, and then he sent me back a letter with my check says, You've been blackballed. And the guy that blackballed me was the guy that took Joe's case. And I said, screw that, I will start my own mastermind, and I did. And, uh, you know, we got started, it was very small. We had like, eight lawyers. And now I got five different groups with, like, 16 lawyers apiece in it. You know, and we, you know, and I love masterminds. I've been in masterminds budget with lawyers, but I've been in masterminds every year, since 2008, last 12 years, 13 years, with other business people, not lawyers.
Steve Fretzin 8:48
And let me let me ask him what so when you when you mentioned mastermind, there's lawyers listening to this in their own what, what the heck is that? Or what's the model that you're doing? That's adding value for them in their practice?
Ken Hardison 9:00
Yeah. So what I do is I have three levels. And what I try to do is, what we do is you get together and meet three times a year in person for two days. And everybody gets about an hour to share what's working in marketing, what's working in management, what's not working in management, what's working man and marketing? And what is your challenges or something that you've had an idea what to do, but you don't know if it'll work. And so that's why I have a little mini board of directors and I'm there facilitate it and I try to keep my job is like the backstop or if they don't get what they want, then I throw in my two cents worth but I try not to make it about me. Well, I've been in some masterminds where it's all about the guy like me, and that I don't repeat those. I mean, because I can just hire that guy, one on one customer. Why do I want to go to a mastermind, if Alma does hear him talk about how great he is. But I tried it like they did on Monday was to try to shut up people to order take the whole stage the whole time. Keep them down to a low volume, and then get people that are sitting over there. Want to not say anything and pull stuff out of them to make it really engaging? You know, everybody's involved. And we do that. And I've had every lawyer I've ever had, it's got it. I've never always do a money back guarantee. I've never had money in 12 years, I've never had anybody asked for the money back. The only thing they tell me is they wish they'd been in years or because you don't know what you're doing.
Steve Fretzin 10:24
Yeah, not only that, but I think lawyers, even at law firms feel siloed they feel alone and they feel stuck. And they feel like, you know, they're they're just they're not they're not getting the fresh ideas or perspectives that they need.
Ken Hardison 10:37
Yeah. I mean, it is lonely at the top. But that's another thing. I mean, I mean, I just have some case studies that in this one lady lawyer, she's been with me for 13 years straight. And even before I started filming, and when I when I did it, she was making money, but she was working 80 hours a week. And now she's got 18 lawyers. And she works about 30 hours a week. And she's killing it. I mean, she's created a national practice. And I told her when she did when I said, you got to do this, because he's on the ball. I said that this will help you get there. Look, they said, masterminds will help you get there a lot quicker and save a lot more money. And that's that's the deal. I mean, you know, there's two ways you know, you can you can learn about trial and error, or you can learn from others trials and errors. Yes, right. A lot cheaper.
Steve Fretzin 11:24
Take the shortcut. Take the shortcut.
Ken Hardison 11:27
Yeah. So that's what a mastermind is, and we do some other stuff. But that's the main port. I got other stuff that put it that. That's that that's a big part
Steve Fretzin 11:35
How does that differ than then PILMA, what's that the program with PILMA the plan with PILMA.
Ken Hardison 11:40
PILMA is basically a membership site where I have gone ahead and created modules, training modules, a step by step of, you know, of how to get more cases, in a and then once you get more cases, then you have the problems with the management, and you know what I'm talking about, you got to be careful what you wish for sometimes, that's why everybody comes to pebble want more cases, then after they get what they want, then they will Well, we got big problems, because we don't know how to hire people we don't how to manage, we don't know what KPIs are, you know, we're having, you know, we're losing this, we're losing there, you know. And so we handle both of it. But, you know, marketing is my love, I'm not gonna lie about it, but you got to have both, you got to have the infrastructure, you know, you just got to I mean, you never gonna scale a law firm, you got to have good people strategy. And you got to have you know, execution, you got to have cash flow. You know, you got to you know, you can't, you went out of case, I don't care how great you're, you're going to go broke.
Steve Fretzin 12:44
And there's so many moving parts. But the thing that I that I really wanted to talk to you about, because we had mentioned before we started recording the book that you wrote called under promise over deliver, which is, which is something people say that most people don't actually do. And part of that book talks through the sort of the before you get a client during your working with a client then after that is accurate. So the piece that I really want to focus on, because it's not something I've it's been talked about on the show too much is all the mistakes or missteps that are happening. After you get the client you've you've done the work, you've you've you've worked the case, you've maybe even finished the case. And then that's sort of it or you don't really have a plan for what's after that. I think that's what I'd like to hear your thoughts on that and maybe give some ideas and steps about what people can do to make sure that they keep the momentum or make sure they keep the relationship.
Ken Hardison 13:37
Yeah, I call it before representation during representation after representation. And everybody thinks about the first three, but only, maybe 20% of lawyers deal with the second the third part, which is after representation. And here's the reason why, for some reason, I don't have his egos. And I think I can talk about lawyers because I am one right.
Steve Fretzin 13:54
Yeah, I think it's great. And I'm not and I still do so it doesn't matter.
Ken Hardison 13:58
And the deal is they think that people will remember them forever, and that they'll also automatically come back to them. And that's just not true. And I've got this story that I tell when it's a short story that I tell it, it'll bring it home better than anything else I can say. When I moved down to Myrtle Beach when I sold my first practice, I needed a plumber. So I went in but you know land founders plumber, good job, good rates, you know, I was very happy. But then I had a hot water heater go out about a year and a half later. And for the life of me, I cannot remember who this from I remember the truck being kinda yellow, but I can't remember anything else. And I go online and I get another one and it's like the same one. But this guy does. Same thing. He does great work. He gives a good price. But he does something different. Number one, he puts a magnet on the water heater that says you know, here Here you go. If you need any help, number second thing he did was I started getting a newsletter for either black and white about every two months. And it was nothing about eight out there about, you know, get ready for winter or this was you freezing pipes or you know, little tidbits or something about that here at the beach. But it was nothing about Harvey Harvey Harvey, it was just really good. And he had an article about his family, you know, but something about his daughter or his kids or whatever, due to release fishing or something like that. So, the next time I had a set problem, I said, no problem. I just put my newsletter if it was laying on the table, and called him, okay, two different scenarios, who you think's making more money, who you think's got more business from the past second guys killing it? Yeah. And so the same thing with lawyers. And they think, you know, if I did a great job, they're gonna come back. And the deal is, they would if they could remember you. So the deal is, in Dan Kennedy taught me this a long time ago, probably 20 years ago, you got to figure out how to create a fence around this herd of people. Because why do you want to spend money up front? to get people to know you, like you and trust you? Because that's what people are always they know, like, and trust. When you already got all these people that you are hopefully you did a great job at the raven fans. And they know you, they trust you and they lack you. Unless you've done a bad job or you know, you don't have some of those. We all do. We know how it works. There's some people Jesus crashgate satisfied, that's okay, too. But why are you spending all that money trying to convince people who you're you're a good fit, when you got all these other people that could be referring your cases or repeat business. And I just think it's a, it's ludicrous, and it's just really wasting so much money, and energy. So I create these things, and I don't want to give it I'm gonna give out the tips. And I will probably hit them all. But number one is a newsletter. And I see some lawyers doing his letters, and they got all this law in Rome.
Steve Fretzin 16:53
You know that we have real technical real wordy, terrible.
Ken Hardison 16:57
Law was boring as shit. Just tell like it is. So you know, you might put something in there about, there's some law change, and it would affect you know, your clientele or whatever. But keep it about, you know, I used to run an article every time I wrote it myself about what's going on in my life, you know, whether I'm on a trip, golfing, my daughter getting married my dog, when we had a hurricane, you know, and here's what happened, I would go to the grocery store, man and people that I couldn't remember who they were, because I've never seen so many people over the years, they will come up to me to ask me, how's my dog do it and I always say, yeah, how's your family? I don't even know who they are. But the deal is, I created that relationship over and over and over over so many years that they felt like they knew me personally, even though I didn't mean to actually handle their case, because I had associate doing it. And that's what you won't. And then another thing in the newsletter, and this is so important. And I'll get some lawyers arguing with me about this. But I know I'm right on this one. And I might not be right on everything, but I'm rattled. So you hope to create the warrior, their trusted atmosphere. But while you're there, they think of you as their trusted legal adviser. If you can get to that point. They call you no matter what it is they need. And if it certainly I always tell them, you know, I used to put my newsletter, we want you to think of us as your trusted legal adviser. If we can't help you, we'll find somebody good that can. So what I do, I had this whole makeup of all these lawyers on different practices that I don't do in every city, every county within like 100 miles. And then I refer them to cases and somehow we get referral fees, and some I don't, but the deal is, I either do live transfers are either I send them a postcard, it's Stacey, Jenny Jones, I hope you're able to help her. They know that you're new to it. So what are they going to do? They don't feel reciprocity to send you back cases, right?
Steve Fretzin 18:48
Yeah.
Ken Hardison 18:48
Yeah. You know, and half of them will have a moan. Okay. Okay. But listen, the deal is, did you don't worry about missing that case?
Steve Fretzin 18:58
Yeah, I mean, Ken something I share with my clients is in the older the older attorneys know this better than the younger but there's something called the client loyalty myth. And that myth is if you take care of your people, you do a good job and you charge a fair fair rate that they're going to stay with you forever and you're going to you know, be your beer client forever. absolutely not the case. So it's what are you doing to keep in touch what you know, how are you staying relevant How are you staying in front of them? How are you being there consistently airy, their advisor not just their lawyer handle the matter? And I think that's what you're going that's what you're going towards and I think a newsletter you know, it's just one of many things that need to happen and are in maybe isn't happening enough.
Ken Hardison 19:39
Yeah. And you know, doing like once every quarter about datum every other month, but you can do whatever you want to do, you got to be fancy. The second thing is, what I did was I, I put in, I had a every year I had a client appreciation deal where I rented a part got a band got to you hamburgers and hot dogs give out a lot of swag. And I give out prizes and everything. And I had and had clowns, they were doing face painting for the kids and the little rods and stuff. And they led in a and it was just a client Appreciation Day past clients credit clients. And I have six, 800 people show up. And it was, I mean, I mean, everybody loved it. And another thing I did was create what we call, this is something I don't know anybody's ever done, except the pillar members. And I'm actually never shared this buddy, other people never, but I'm gonna share it because they weren't sure how to do it anyway. But that I created a cloud advisory board and what it was, as I'd meet with them every three months and take them out to Golden Corral, which is cheap. And give them three questions. How are we doing? What do you hear about us on the street? What can we do better? And I give them some swag. And then I'll give them some business cards. That I had a private demo and I said, this is a VIP card you get you see somebody that needs? These are services, give it to them. Tell them this is a backdoor number. Amazing what it would do?
Steve Fretzin 21:07
Yeah, that's really that's really innovative.
Ken Hardison 21:11
And then I did a lot of books, I was a real big on educational based marketing. I'm not much I'm no I was a PI lawyer last 20 years. But I never was one of those guys that stood up with the checks wave of them. And it works. I just I can't do it. It's just me. It's not, you got to be who you are, right? Yeah. And I couldn't stand up there with a straight face and do it, that devil could do it. So I was all about educate. And so I had a lot of these different books. And nothing I would do is every time I had a new client come in, I give them three books, I say, if you see somebody that these are services, you give them this book and tell this is the loader I use two things happen. They're not gonna throw that book away like a business card, right? Number two things happen. They give it they get this icebreaker for them to give you a referral, because a lot of what I found is 20% of the people will never give you referrals give a shit what you do. 20% will give you give you referrals no matter what you do. And then 60% would if they knew how to do it. So you've given them a way to do it. And then that book puts you as the authority figure. So I'm big on books. You know, in Abra, I wrote seven different consumer books for every different practice area had, you know, car wrecks, motorcycle truck of accidents, nursing home abuse, so security workers comp, anything I mean, you know, and they work, they work for me, because I use them a lot of different ways that this use them as a lead magnet on my website, I use them a lot of different ways. And then I've made these little stickers that says we love referrals, or we appreciate referrals to put them on the backup every envelope I sent to a client. And then also I sent them birthday cards, found out when their birthday, they got a birthday card for me every year, I sent out Thanksgiving cards every year, and probably Easter and, and I always did Valentine's Day, I sent him a Valentine's Day card and say we love referrals or either we love our class, depending on how it was. And in some years, I said a little box of candy with it too. So it's just keeping in front of them and nurturing that relationship. And on the top you might and I call it Top of Mind awareness. So those are just some of the I got a lot more but that those are the main. Those are the key ones. There's a lot of things you can do. Don't get me wrong, but I just gave you like five or six really golden nuggets.
Steve Fretzin 23:25
Yeah, no, you did. I mean, the newsletter, client trusted advisor advisory board, main birthday card surveys, I mean, these are all things that are helping you stay sticky with your clients and with your maybe strategic partners, referral partners, things like that. What about the lawyer that is at a high not at a high dose at a higher level, but maybe they're working with general counsel's they're working with CEOs or bigger companies, and they maybe have a much smaller base? Like let's say they have, you know, 10 or 20 clients, you know, instead of hundreds, anything that you'd say for them, just to kind of make sure we don't leave, you know, alienate them in this conversation. Because you might be thinking, yeah, I'm not going to be sending out Valentine cards to my you know, GC, although they could.
Ken Hardison 24:09
They could. If I was doing that I would do it a lot more professional and probably not as a...
Steve Fretzin 24:18
Maybe you're not having the backyard barbecue. Maybe you're taking them out for a bottle of wine and fine dinner.
Ken Hardison 24:24
Yeah. And here's something that I would do everybody. When you get a referral. Write them a handwritten thank you notes. Nice. Yeah. Everybody says I don't have time. Listen, I don't know what your average fee is per client that I used to take time to do it and that horn and I said, I would write it that I get my secretary to fill out the envelope everything put the stamp on it, but I would say like thank you for referring us john doe, you know, referral is the is the biggest covenant repair law firm. We'll try to, you know, do everything we can to help them and listen Keep them coming. Yeah. But if you're talking about, you know, big lawyers, I think the deals that they like, it's more like, figuring out what they like. This is what I do with some of my panel members in the masterminds. As part of the process, I've tried to figure out what's their hobbies? What's your favorite colors? Do they drink alcohol? They do. What's their favorite alcohol? Is it Why is it liquor? Is it beer? You know, what are their favorite charities? And then when something happens, and and here's another, this is probably the best. I've seen them gifts along the way. just reminded them, you know, I saw this and thought about you. What the hell?
Steve Fretzin 25:38
Nobody's doing that.
Ken Hardison 25:39
The locals like I'll do that for him. Their daddies not gonna do it for them.
Steve Fretzin 25:43
Yeah, I'm very I'm lucky if I get I get a gift for my birthday these days, let alone from my lawyer.
Ken Hardison 25:49
Yeah. Something like that. You know, I tend to do stuff like that. And then the other thing is, and this is kind of Barnhart is taught me this guy that wrote scaling up, he's another one of my mentors, is a what is the thing that you can do with Google? Put alerts for certain people's
Steve Fretzin 26:11
Google alerts, yeah
Ken Hardison 26:13
Yeah, so put Google Alerts in for all these people that you contacts that you want to nurture? If anything happens, and it comes up in there? Man, you write up you send them an email, you write them a little note, say, Hey, I saw you did this or I saw you got awarded this or that, congratulations.
Steve Fretzin 26:30
Yeah, here's sort of the first one first one is to say something, it's more meaningful than the 20th
Ken Hardison 26:35
Yeah, there's something like that. That's so good little thing for professionals that they will learn from us. I will say I thought of it, Vern Harnish. Bring it.
Steve Fretzin 26:45
Look, you know, great ideas are great ideas and we can make them our own in any way that we want. But this this has been great just from a standpoint of of your your willingness to share all these great ideas with my audience and if people want to learn more about PILMA, they want to grab your books they want to you know, just just learn more about Ken Hardison, what are they? Where do they go?
Ken Hardison 27:07
pilma.org is a PILMA.org.
Steve Fretzin 27:12
Wonderful. And I'll put some additional information about you in the show notes. But just just thanks again, Ken for taking some time and, and sharing all this great insights with my audience. It really it's meaningful to me and, and I appreciate what you do every day. It's It's It's not easy. And it's it's it's it's something that you've excelled at.
Ken Hardison 27:29
Oh, I love it, man. Thank you for having me on the show. It's been it's been fun. And I like the like the talk the stuff as you can tell.
Steve Fretzin 27:36
Yeah, yeah. Well, I will have to continue this conversation offline and, and hopefully, you know, learn continue to learn more about each other. But listen, everybody, thank you for spending some time with Ken today. And you know, the goal is to be that lawyer, someone who's confident organizing a skilled Rainmaker and just keep on it. It's not easy, but it's it's the right thing to do if you're looking for sustainability in your practice. So, listen, take care be safe. We'll talk soon.
Narrator 28:05
Thanks for listening to be that lawyer. Life Changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve's website Fretzin.com. For additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today's episode, check out today's show notes.