In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Josh Baron discuss:
Key Takeaways:
"Look for opportunities to just break the script and wildly exceed their expectations." — Josh Baron
Connect with Josh Baron:
Website: sb-legal.net
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/joshuabaron
Twitter: twitter.com/baronjosh
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: Steve@Fretzin.com
Book: The Ambitious Attorney: Your Guide to Doubling or Even Tripling Your Book of Business and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
Josh Baron 0:00
So when I'm thinking about what to post, I think what would be useful to other lawyers, especially lawyers who don't practice criminal defense. So I almost never post about criminal defense because divorce lawyers don't want to read about some nuance of some new case in criminal defense, that's not helpful. And so instead, I think about what problem do they have that I could help solve?
Narrator 0:22
You're listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time, greater results. Now, here's your host, Steve Fretzin.
Steve Fretzin 0:44
Hey, everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. I'm Steve Fretzin, your host, and hopefully you're having a great day today. I've got an amazing guest today. And Josh Baron who's the founder of SB legal How's it going, Josh?
Josh Baron 0:55
I'm doing great. Thanks. Thanks for having me on.
Steve Fretzin 0:57
Yeah. Thanks for being here. And I'd love to hear more about your background is a lawyer and also as a marketer.
Josh Baron 1:04
Well, thank you. Yeah, I'm happy to answer any questions you have.
Steve Fretzin 1:07
Yeah, well, that's my first question. Sorry, more about your background as an as a marketer.
Josh Baron 1:12
So I mean, I started my practice in 2009. I was two years out of law school. And it's just been something that, you know, I love thinking about and love trying to make, make sure that I'm finding the right clients and serving those clients the right way. So I sometimes consult for other law firms, but most the time, I'm just doing it for myself making sure that that we're finding the right people.
Steve Fretzin 1:33
Okay. And your focus is is a criminal law.
Josh Baron 1:36
Yeah, I'm 100% criminal defense.
Steve Fretzin 1:38
Okay. Okay, got it. That's awesome. And take me through also, like, I know that you, you're a pretty prolific on LinkedIn, and I see your posts all the time, what got you excited about, you know, getting into into social media and marketing this way?
Josh Baron 1:52
I'm definitely a convert. So what I realized a couple of years ago was the best way to grow my firm was to go to lunch with other lawyers, not to pitch them anything, not to sell them anything, just being with them, led to more referrals. And then COVID happened. And like my ability to do that was just shut off. And so then I just started kind of experimenting, looking for ways to just continue to have those kinds of conversations that I was having before at lunch, but without necessarily exposing people to COVID. And LinkedIn has been the best solution for that, that I found.
Steve Fretzin 2:25
Yeah, I'm using it all the time, as well. And I'm really engaged in it on a, you know, not only on a daily basis, but maybe even on an hourly basis, doing all kinds of things. I want to get into the details of what you're doing what I'm doing, and maybe there's some things that we can share that would help you know, the people listening right now. But more importantly, are you a skier, I know you're out in Utah.
Josh Baron 2:46
I have a scare. I grew up in Southern California, I'd never been skiing before I came to Utah. But I went to Brigham Young University in Provo, and I hated law school. And they let me register for the undergrad ski class. So I went and did that. And I've loved skiing ever since I have like a million kids. So I don't get out as much as I'd like. But when I do go out, it's just one of my absolute favorite things to do.
Steve Fretzin 3:08
Yeah, it's it's, it can be one of the most serene, peaceful things, especially out where you are. I know, I'm in the Midwest, and the skiing is just horrible. And you know, you take three or four turns and you're down the mountain. And now you got to send out a chairlift or you're down that hill, the bunny Hill, if you will. But out there, it's you know, just you know, you can ski and you get the powder, and you can just kind of float around. It's really, really beautiful.
Josh Baron 3:30
Yeah, we're spoiled. It's great skiing, and even the bad resorts have just great mountains.
Steve Fretzin 3:35
Yeah, well, amazing. Amazing. So let's talk a little bit about your transition, because you mentioned that you were maybe you know, doing marketing or advertising a certain way, and then you've made some changes. So talk to me about that trend, you know, what you were doing before and what, well, how that was working, and then your transition over?
Josh Baron 3:52
Well, we were doing two things. So we were very advertising based starting in oh nine. We started out with direct mail, and then then ended up doing Google AdWords. And for years, we spent about $25,000, a month on Google AdWords, and we got a good return on it. But it was crazy. I mean,
Steve Fretzin 4:08
45,000 a month. That's a lot of money.
Josh Baron 4:10
Yeah. And so we're running around trying to service all these clients and trying to, you know, pay our Google bill every month. It was a lot. And then my partner retired in 2017. He writes novels, and the novels were just like, wildly successful. So he's like, why am I being a colonel? I understood that. And so he retired and I got to kind of pick what am I going to do now. And so we started trying to build more referral relationships. And it took us a while to kind of figure out how to do that. And then COVID was kind of the thing that really made us jump and we ended all of our ads in in March of 2020. And the cases kept coming. And it would have been because of that foundation of referral relationships that we've been building for quite some time. And so now what's wonderful is I work less but I make more. The clients are way happier because I'm more more accessible, and I'm able to help them better. So I'm doing better work. And I'm not tearing my hair out at the same time.
Steve Fretzin 5:07
Yeah, my guess is that the leads that are qualified are probably higher now than they were, you know, via straight advertising.
Josh Baron 5:14
Oh, totally. Yeah. So people are coming. And they've already got a recommendation from someone they trust someone they care about. And the other thing is, I was doing like eight or nine consultations every day. So that that's, you know, half my day, every day is talking to strangers, and the signup rate just wasn't as high. So because it wasn't the right people, they didn't have the right kinds of problems. And they didn't trust me yet.
Steve Fretzin 5:35
Yeah. So I think it's really important to then maybe, you know, talk about, you know, how do you develop a referral source? And, and what's the importance of that? And then how does that, you know, really change that the game as it relates to how you're taking in qualified leads? So talk to me a little bit about what you're looking for in a referral partner? And, and what makes us a successful relationship there?
Josh Baron 5:57
Well, I mean, it's, it's not, it's just what makes a good relationship. It's about being generous and being friendly and having good relationships with people. And I think something that can also help is being really clear about what you do. There have been times when our firm we would try to do an immigration and we were doing divorce, we're doing all these different things. And it's, it's kind of muddy and difficult for people to know, when should you know, who do I send you to? What's the trigger. But by being really specific and clear, it makes it much easier for people to know, oh, this is somebody I should put in touch with Josh. And at the same time, it gives me a better opportunity to send out the cases that I'm not as good at, to those people who could potentially send me my ideal clients.
Steve Fretzin 6:37
Yeah, I think that's really important. The idea that you're trying to be everything to everyone ends up just muddying the water to where you're not really getting the right people or doing the right kind of work. So the idea that you're specializing, and that you're sharing that specific intent with your referral sources makes it much easier for them to remember you or much easier for them to just know, oh, this situation? That's Josh.
Josh Baron 7:01
Yeah, yeah. So I think the first step is having that clear trigger. But then the second step, it's almost, you know, impossible, without people only send referrals to people who are going to make the referral source look good. So, you know, initially, honestly, we had really poor customer service, I personally had really poor customer service. So we had a lot of clients, but a lot of the clients were mad at us. And I was really convinced that it was their fault. Like they didn't get what I was doing, and how come they weren't more grateful. And I finally had to kind of look at myself and be like, wait, the common denominator with all these people is that they're working with me. And so it's really hard to kind of to form a relationship with someone and hope they send you referrals, if you know, that person is not going to have a great experience, and they're going to kind of blame the referral source, it's just never going to work. So having just an excellent customer service experience was, honestly our first step, even before we were really, really clear about what we did, it was just creating a killer customer service experience that that allowed us to start to build that. So take that a step deeper. So give me give me two clear points to customer service.
Steve Fretzin 8:08
What makes a great experience for your clients. Now that maybe wasn't happening before?
Josh Baron 8:14
Well, one is just communicating better. So something that I started doing, and I was very scared to do it. And I'm not necessarily saying everyone needs to do it. But it was important for me, I started giving all of my clients my cell phone number. And what's been crazy, as they call me less now, the fact that they know that they can get ahold of me when they need to, like sometimes I can tell that they're calling my office to like test and see, can they get ahold of me and get it. But now they don't do that, because they can text me or they can call me. And occasionally I'll have a client that kind of abuses that. And I'll have a frank discussion with them and say, like, you can't, that's not gonna work, you can't do that. So just better communication. And then the second was looking for opportunities to just break the script and wildly exceed their expectations. So somebody asks, one example was a client was, he had a criminal case, and he was going through the hiring process for a new job that he really wanted to get. And during the background check, they found the case that we were working on, and he called me in the middle of a very busy day, I was in court and asked, he said, Hey, I need really quickly, I need a letter to my this HR person, or they're not gonna hire me. And in the old days, I think I would have said, Look, man, you hired me to do this. I'm doing this, this isn't really in the scope of what we agreed to do. And so I today's not a good day for me, I'll get it to you in a week or so. But I just thought, you know what, I can take a break right now. So I went into the hall, got on my laptop, wrote up a letter to be 20 minutes and hand it over to him and you know, 2030 minutes. He was like, he was just a few said, Thank you so much. I appreciate this. And without being asked, he went on like eight different websites and left me reviews websites that I didn't even know could review me, you know, I'm getting emails from the sites I've never heard of, and he's leaving a five star review. So. So I think those are the two things first, communicating better and second, just look for opportunities to make their day.
Steve Fretzin 10:02
Yeah, just so impressed with the self reflection, though, because I think that's, that's a very hard thing for anyone to do. And I don't know that lawyers do it enough. And I think they're just kind of keep plowing forward and plowing forward and pointing fingers. And you're, you're taking ownership of that, and making the changes, I think is, you know, that's, that's critical to your evolution, right, as a lawyer and as a business owner.
Josh Baron 10:24
Well, and it was painful, honestly, like, that was a painful realization to look in the mirror go, I'm bad at this, this thing that I thought I would be so good at. I'm bad at this. But it allowed me to kind of look for ways to fix it. And it was very fixable. It just, you know, but it took some practice. And we got there much quicker than I thought when I made when I had that realization.
Steve Fretzin 10:44
Yeah. So let's, let's talk a little bit about social media. And maybe LinkedIn in particular, this is something that, you know, I know lawyers look at and say what a massive waste of time or others look at it like you do, where they go, this is the best business tool maybe that's ever been invented in the history of the world. So you know, give me your your 30 seconds on, on why you you like social media, or why you like LinkedIn, what do you think it's, it's good for
Josh Baron 11:11
Well, something that's been helpful is being really clear about what I want to get out of it. So I mean, I just like everybody else, if I get a bunch of likes on a post, it makes me feel good. I like that. But that's not really why I'm there. What I'm there for is for conversations, I'm trying to replace the lunches that I was having with other lawyers. So for me, the success is, is conversation conversations. And so if somebody says, hey, let's jump on a zoom call, or Hey, listen, I just like to talk to you about this. That's a great opportunity to build a sincere, genuine relationship. And so I'm not really looking for I mean, again, I would take them, I would take millions of followers and, but But what I'm really looking for is to just show up every day, so people know that I'm around, and then to start some conversations offline. And so you know, if I have three of those every week, that's a super successful LinkedIn week for me, regardless of how many 1000s of people saw the posts.
Steve Fretzin 12:03
Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm reading your posts almost every day. I mean, they're just, they're just getting fed into my channel. And I'm enjoying them. Because you're not just you're not pitching anything, you're not selling anything. You are engaging people in a dialogue, engaging people in a conversation. And so how do you come up with what you want to post each day or each week? How does that work? What's your process?
Josh Baron 12:24
Yeah, I mean, what I, what I'm trying to do is I try to be again, specific about who I want to talk to. So like, if somebody who's like an SEO person wants to pit you, hey, let's get on a conversation. I'm not taking that call. I want to talk to other lawyers really. And so when I'm thinking about what to post, I think what would be useful to other lawyers, especially lawyers, you don't practice criminal defense. So I almost never post about criminal defense, because divorce lawyers don't want to read about some nuance of some new case in criminal defense, that's not helpful. And so instead, I think about what problem do they have that I can help solve? But it's actually sort of like a Venn diagram of what problem can I solve? And what am i obsessed with, because if I'm not obsessed with it, I can't make good stuff about it. I'm not reading about it, I'm not interested in it. And so I've been really interested over the last few years in referrals. And so I post a lot about referrals. But if I read a book, I just read this book called Deep work that you might have heard, I, I'm obsessed with that. But right now, I have a feeling that there's going to be some posts that come from it. And they're going to be more on the like, how to be wildly productive side of things. Because that may be a problem that some attorneys are facing and struggling with, and and we'll see if people respond to it, maybe they will, maybe they'll say go back to talking about referrals. But but that's what I think about is what am I interested in? What am I reading? And then what problem do the people that I want to serve? What problem do they have that I could help with?
Steve Fretzin 13:39
You know, and the thing that I again, that I'm observing about your many of your posts is that they're not with you're not using fancy images, you're not always using fancy videos. Sometimes it's what I call a rant, which is basically just like, it's all text, it's your opinion, it's engaging, you're trying to, you know, not only share your point of view, but also get people to interact with you and share their point of view to again, create a conversation. So, you know, for example, I just saw one that you had about, you know, who are your top 50 like people in your network, and then I'm looking up another one here that, you know, no one cares about your credential. So you're taking sort of a stance on something that you believe strongly and even if it might turn somebody off, it's like, so what I'm This is my opinion, my stance, and I'm gonna, you know, get a conversation about it. Somebody wants to argue it, that's their choice. But, you know, at least I'm getting in a dialogue,
Josh Baron 14:29
Right. I mean, honestly, every time I say nobody cares about blank, or you're doing this wrong, it's because it's something I've done, you know, and so right credentials thing, like I think I said in that post, like every single consultation, I tried to list my credentials, and no one ever lit up about that no one ever said, Oh, really, you went to that training? Oh, that's amazing. That's exactly what I'm looking for. No one cares. And so sometimes I'm trying to be a little bit provocative, but literally, I'm just saying something to myself 10 years ago and saying, you dummy, stop. That nobody wants that. Who's that for?
Steve Fretzin 15:02
Yeah, yeah, it's just it's just pumping up pumping yourself up. It's not really, you know, people care about themselves. So let's focus on them. Right, let's focus on what they care about. And so is it is it really just about about getting these posts out every day where you're you're trying to engage an audience or I know that you also go in and you comment? Is that a big thing to to get in there and comment on other people's posts and engage them that way?
Josh Baron 15:26
Yeah, I mean, so I try to have boundaries, because I don't want LinkedIn to get in the way of my work. And so sometimes I can be a little bit addicted and, and come on more than I should. But what I try to do is on Saturday, I'll sit down, I'll set a timer for an hour, and I'll write five posts. And throughout the week, I might like make a little note in my notes app on my phone, so that I have something to start with, I don't like to sit down with a blank page, that scares the crap out of me, I do not like a blank page. So I'll sit down and I've got like four or five or six different little notes that I've made to myself, and then I just write five within the hour, I scheduled them on Hootsuite, and I post them. And then what I'll try to do is schedule two times to come on during the day. Now I'm not always successful, because again, the dope of me and I want to come back and get a hit. But I'll try to schedule two times that i'll come on and interact with people in the comments, respond to my messages and just start conversations with people get to know them. One of my favorite questions to ask when I'm messaging someone is, what's something you're working on? What are you excited about? What's your biggest goal this year? You know, and that can be an intimidating conversation for a lot of people. And some people don't really get into it, but the ones who do really get into it? And then that's an exciting conversation where, you know, can I send them a book? Can I make an introduction for them? How can I serve them,
Steve Fretzin 16:36
And you're really getting to know people and knowing what's important to them. And that's going to really, you know, charge forward with a relationship. And I can just add that, that I love the rant too. I you know, I have about one or two a week that I try to put out where I think about something that is important to me, or maybe something that happened over the course of the last week, where you know, a client had a challenge or something that I think people would be interested in reading about an angle that maybe they haven't thought of, and try to get that engagement. And then the other thing is I've got, you know, the podcast, I've got articles, I've got videos, I've got all this stuff. And so I try to put that out. And it's interesting that that gets actually less engagement in some instances than the than the rant or just the text. So I'd say maybe just a social experiment that that while I think video is hot, there's also something to be said about people that just that just, they get hooked by your your opening line. And then just continue reading down the whole the whole post.
Josh Baron 17:32
Well, Texas so consumable, I don't do any video on LinkedIn text is so consumable. So somebody's sitting in court, which is pre COVID, something that I spend a ton of time to, and I can't listen to your audio, and so, so text is super, super consumable no matter where I am. So I kind of scrolled past people's videos, maybe other people watch videos, but again, I'm not trying to get everyone, I'm trying to get some people. And if those people are into what I'm doing, and they want to have a conversation, and then that leads to positive relationships,
Steve Fretzin 18:04
And have you have you taken the the post and then the people that comment on it or or when you find something if someone else is coming, have you been able to leverage that into directly connecting with people through LinkedIn to start a new relationship?
Josh Baron 18:19
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. So sometimes it's led directly to business, like a friend of mine saw that I've been posting a lot and he just posted like, hey, this guy's a criminal defense lawyer, and he's been posting some good stuff. And somebody commented, and then messaged me and was like, hey, I need an expungement. Can you help me clean up my record? So within an hour of that post, I had money in my bank account from that client. So that was pretty great. That's pretty great. But something that's really fun, though, is, you know, I, for some reason, I've talked to like two lawyers in Toronto in the last week or so. You and I would never have met but for LinkedIn, I met this lawyer from Idaho named mo Hawes, who's the absolute best if you're not following mo Hawes, he's the he's a luthier. He makes mandolins by hand like he's, it's just and so I meet these people, and they're so cool. And they're people that I'd never would have met before. And I just so I talked to this guy named Nicholas Gurney somebody something that I'm really interested in is like behavioral economics and Daniel Kahneman his book Thinking Fast and Slow. I don't talk to that many people about it. I yesterday, I talked to this guy named Nick Gurney, he's an attorney in Florida. And he does like personal injury work. And we somebody introduced us from LinkedIn. And we started chatting and we just had the most amazing conversation about these books that I've never found. Anybody wants to read those books. So it's been you know, again, none of it is like directly for Hey, Nick, some your referral. How many referrals is it going to have from Florida but just having these conversations knowing these people and looking for ways to help each other? It's it's actually replaced a lot of the social stuff that I missed from pre COVID
Steve Fretzin 19:50
Yeah. And so I think there's something to be learned here from the attorneys that are feeling the the effects of of, you know, the the way the world is and In the lack of of personal interaction, live interaction, moving to, you know, zoom meetings, moving to LinkedIn, getting engaging in conversations and trying to meet new people. And if you're missing that, I think if you're listening in, you're missing that. I think that's a huge takeaway from our conversations today with Josh and I, that, you know, there's all all these people out there that you can network with, there's all these people out there that have similar interests, or that are reading similar books that you can be that you could be getting to know if you're just open to it, and you're active on it. And so I think that's really what what Josh is saying, it's really it sounds like it's been, it's been massive for you.
Josh Baron 20:39
Yeah, it's been great. It's been great. And just the ideas that I've gotten the things that I've learned, and more than anything, the people I've met on LinkedIn has been fantastic. And it is leading to concrete, actual business. You know, there's people that I run into in person every now and then. And they'll say, Man, you've been posting a lot on LinkedIn about this. And I'm like, Well, I guess I'm in their brains, you know, that definitely increases the chances that they're going to send me a referral, even though they're not commenting. You know, they're seeing it, and they and they care about it.
Steve Fretzin 21:06
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I know that you created a free resource called, how to find your ideal clients on LinkedIn. Can you talk talk about that for a moment?
Josh Baron 21:16
Yeah, so it's just a little five step kind of PDF, that again, if I could go back a year, it's what I would give myself, it's, you know, it's, it's trying to be as actionable as possible. It's just exactly what I'm doing. Without letting LinkedIn take over my life without, you know, losing my ability productive, to be productive for my clients who are paying me and my family, to just, you know, do a little bit every day on LinkedIn and pay it, it's paid off huge for me. So if, if it's helpful, I'd love to, for people to take a look at it and see if it's something that they're they're into.
Steve Fretzin 21:47
And just just to again, you know, and that I don't know, if you can, can pull this out of out of the air, but you know, what are the what you mentioned five points, what are what are the what are a few of the five points are all the five points.
Josh Baron 21:57
So one is to post every day. One is to, to comment on 10 other people's posts, because again, if what if what you're trying to do is to actually meet people who could move your career forward, then you've got to engage with them, they're not going to just come straight to your posts, you have to start engaging with them. But the thing that I think is really underutilized on LinkedIn, or at least was by me, is messaging. So when somebody a lot of times people unsolicited will add music connection, and if they are, especially like, if they're a lawyer in Utah, I need to start a conversation with that person. So that's where I will, I don't immediately say, hey, let's get on a zoom call. But I'll just like, as if we were at a party and we started talking to each other, I'll send them a message and start a conversation. And that's been huge. So I wish I could remember off the top of my head that three of them.
Steve Fretzin 22:43
Well, that's those are, those are pretty good ones. And I think you've shared a couple other points, you know, as far as engagement with others, and I just did this happen to me today, I was, um, I was looking through some contacts, contacts, and some of my clients that are, you know, that, you know, crushed it and all that. And I just reached out to someone who looked interesting, he's a kind of an attorney, point, super lawyer. And I said, Hey, you know, I worked with one of your partners, you know, this person's name, and I, and I'm happy to be a resource for you anytime you need me. And I just said, you know, happy to chat. And then that was it. And then he just reached back to me and said, Yeah, I'd love to learn more about what you do and your rates. And when someone starts asking about my rates, I know that there's, you know, that there's that's, that's, you know, the lingo. Okay, what is this guy? Was this guy charging? Yeah, so I don't give them because I have a lot of different programs. And it's, you know, like asking how much does a bag or groceries cost? You know, it's really What's in the bag? And is it Whole Foods? Or is it you know, cub foods or jewelry? Right? No discount is? So that's, you know, that's just another aspect of LinkedIn. It just adds on to what you're saying that this is a this is a, you know, a weaponized tool for business. We just have to learn how to use it.
Josh Baron 23:51
Yeah, there's this kind of attorney, Coach lady named Deb fetter, who has a really good analogy where she says, you know, LinkedIn is like this great cocktail party or this great networking event. You would never walk up to someone and say, Hi, my name's Josh Baron, I do criminal defense, please send me a referral and then like, walk on to the next person be psychotic, right? Yeah. Like, I love what you did, where it's just like, Hey, what's up, you know, how can I How can I be resource to you? And and that's huge. This guy named Eli Hochberg, I think I'm pronouncing his name, right. He's this web developer guy from Baltimore. And he created this amazing resource called 30 days social. It's how I first started getting into LinkedIn. It was just like 30 days of prompts for LinkedIn. And, and it was super helpful got me into LinkedIn, we met, he designed my website, I refer him to everyone. He does amazing work. He's very reasonably priced. And I never would have met him without him being generous about the program was free. He just reached out and said, How can I help and I think that if we did more of that we'd feel more connected less isolated during this crazy, you know, everybody working from home time, but also we're going to find ways to Help each other do better business. It's not theirs, I don't really see much downside unless it kind of takes over. And so that's where I tried to have some boundaries and some clear LinkedIn time and the rest is not LinkedIn time.
Steve Fretzin 25:10
Yeah, I think I think you know, the argument lawyers are going to put out there is I don't have time to do this. Right. And what's the what's the argument for that?
Josh Baron 25:20
No, I think it's a valid argument. I mean, if you are busy, if you if you're billing 12 hours a day, and according to Clio, no one, especially in a small firm world is billing 12 hours a day. But if you're billing 12 hours a day, don't do LinkedIn, go and Bill more hours, if that's what you're into, you know, but if you feel isolated, and you want to have some more conversations with real humans who are into the things you're into, or if you're not billing 12 hours a day, and you'd like to build those relationships, or you're building toilers today now but you're worried that that pipeline is going to be empty in six months, you know, go and have a conversation. It's not, it's it. You I think it is smart, though, to say, because LinkedIn, just like Facebook, and Twitter, and all that is designed to be addictive. And so like, I think it's smart to make a deliberate choice about how much time I'm going to spend on this, am I going to dedicate 30 minutes a day, is it going to be an hour, twice a week, whatever it is, but just like making sure that that hour is really effective, and it can actually grow your business.
Steve Fretzin 26:17
You know, I just put a boy, you don't know this unless you saw it on LinkedIn. But I just wrote up an article for the Chicago daily labial attend on social media. And one of the things that I spoke about in the article is creating a social media calendar. And if you can take and, you know, again, an hour, it might be an hour a month, or it might be an hour a week, it might be half an hour a week, to not only, you know, write the posts, but really get them set up so that you're not sitting in front of your computer every day saying, I know I have to do this today. But I'm busy and out of time. And I don't even know what to write, that you can actually come up with, you know, maybe one post on engagement, another post, that's a rant another post that's, you know, an article that you researched or had your assistant research to the on a particular subject around your area of practice. And you can actually get everything scheduled out. And then you can either put it out on Hootsuite or you can do it individually each day. But this is definitely a delegate double thing. And it's definitely something that can that if you're organized, you can get more done so that it isn't the same kind of pressure that you might be feeling to, you know, to it to to you know, have to do it every day.
Josh Baron 27:21
Yeah. For me posting on Saturday on who's on Hootsuite makes me way braver because I I'll post something, and I'll be like, ah, can I say that? But then I'm like, well, I've got four days to think about it. And of course, I don't think about it at all. But right and that's me go like I have some time to think about this. I'm just gonna leave it up. And it's it's scheduled to post on Wednesday, we'll see what happens. And then I get busy. And I don't think about it and comes up. And it just makes I think it allows me to make more interesting posts, because I'm looking for for whatever reason, I'm braver on Saturday than I am on Thursday when I'm swamped with work.
Steve Fretzin 27:55
All right. Well, now we we've gotten into another whole category, brave Saturdays. Josh, listen, this has been great and very helpful. And hopefully people listening are getting a bunch of takeaways and how do people get in touch with you to have a conversation or if they need if they need your assistance in your area?
Josh Baron 28:12
I mean, LinkedIn is definitely the best way I think so I'm happy to I really try to engage with all my messages. And so yeah, if you add me, I'll be happy to learn from you and your posts. And I'm happy to help in any way in support, if that's something that you're interested in.
Steve Fretzin 28:27
Yep. And Josh is under Joshua Baron, and it'll also all his details will be in our show notes as well, everybody. Listen, I just want to I will take a moment to thank you. I appreciate you spending some time and sharing your wisdom with my audience. And it's much appreciated,
Josh Baron 28:41
It's so fun, Steve, I really appreciate it.
Steve Fretzin 28:43
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Hey, everybody. Thanks for spending some time with us. Hopefully, this is helping you get one step closer to being that lawyer, someone who's confident organized to the skilled Rainmaker be well.
Narrator 28:58
Thanks for listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve's website Fretzin.com. For additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today's episode, check out today's show notes.