In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jordan Ostroff discuss:
Key Takeaways:
"Think back to those brave war stories you tell everybody. Your best war story might be your niche." — Jordan Ostroff
Connect with Jordan Ostroff:
Website: jordanlawfl.com
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jordan-ostroff/ & linkedin.com/company/jordanlawfl/
Facebook: facebook.com/jordanlawfl/
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: Steve@Fretzin.com
Book: The Ambitious Attorney: Your Guide to Doubling or Even Tripling Your Book of Business and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Jordan Ostroff 0:00
Because you know, you don't need to spend $15,000 on a website, if you're not trying to get digital traffic. You know, if you're if you want to stay all referral base, then the website needs needs to look nice enough that doesn't scare people away. But by the same token, if you're going to run Facebook ads and pay per click ads to your website, It better not look like it was built on, you know geo cities in 1984. Because you're just gonna throw money out the window.
Narrator 0:28
You're listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for drilling a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach Steve Fretzin will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here's your host, Steve Fretzin!
Steve Fretzin 0:51
Hello, everybody. Welcome to be that lawyer. I am Steve fretts. In your host for the show. We have a lot to cover. Today I am very excited to introduce Jordan Ostroff with Jordan law FL and Legalesemarketing who's going to talk to us today about marketing best practices. Jordan, how you doing?
Jordan Ostroff 1:08
I'm doing very well. Thank you so much for having me today.
Steve Fretzin 1:11
Yeah, my pleasure. And if we hear any crazy noises, it's because I think there's a thunderstorm coming through you. Were you down in Florida, right?
Jordan Ostroff 1:18
Yep, Central Florida. So it's either super hot or pouring rain and thundering.
Steve Fretzin 1:22
Oh, that sounds delightful. But still better than Chicago winters, I'm guessing
Jordan Ostroff 1:27
Depends upon the day.
Steve Fretzin 1:29
I don't mind the cold anymore. I'm sort of over it. Like I can deal with any kind of cold. So but I can't deal with extreme heat. So that's, you know, everybody's got their different abilities and temperature guidelines, and that's mine. So, but anyway, listen, if you wouldn't mind Give, give everybody a little bit of an understanding of your background and kind of like you became a lawyer, but then you became a marketer? How does that all work?
Jordan Ostroff 1:52
Sure, certainly the easiest thing is I was one of those idiots who wanted to be a lawyer before I knew anything about it, if any clue what it was. And then at the point that I learned a little bit about it, I was able to realize that I spent my entire life arguing with people and trying to convince them I was right. So I was on the correct path. I started out as a prosecutor. And then once I opened up my business, I realized that every skill I learned as a prosecutor had absolutely nothing to do with running a law firm and being successful. And so I realized that basically, I had to be the CMO, I had to be the marketer, and I tried a bunch of different marketing companies. I didn't know what I wanted, they didn't know what I wanted, they didn't help me figure out what I wanted. So I ended up like six figures in debt from that plus mortgage plus law school debt plus everything else. And so finally, you know, I created a solution to the problem that I couldn't find a good solution to otherwise started a marketing company and then was able to transition that into helping other attorneys avoid the same mistakes and problems that I made for two or three years.
Steve Fretzin 2:48
So what are what are the main problems? What are the things that that you were struggling with? And what are you seeing now with your current clientele that they're struggling with?
Jordan Ostroff 2:57
So the easiest thing for me is, I don't think any book, anybody, I don't think 99% of people don't go to law school to run a law firm. They go to law school to be an attorney. And so I think we get so caught up in this concept of being the best lawyer that we can be, and knowing all the newest cases, and having great relationship with opposing counsels, and judges and all those things. And then I tell everybody, you know, if you imagine in the 1850s, and you wrote into a two horse town, and there were two attorneys, they're the best attorney ever and the best marketer ever. Well, the best attorney ever is going to be working for the best marketer ever. Because if nobody can find you, it doesn't matter how great you are. And so right off the bat, I think the best attorneys, that's their issue is that they are phenomenal attorneys, but not necessarily phenomenal business owners or marketers for their firm.
Steve Fretzin 3:43
And I think that I, you know, can, you know, people have heard me talk about my dad, who, by the way, I don't even think he knows what a podcast is, by the way. And he's one of these guys that really built a practice a solo practice in the 70s, 80s, and maybe the mid 90s. And he didn't, it wasn't that he didn't need marketing, but he really didn't, you know, there was no websites back then there was no social media back then. So really, it was word of mouth. And just being a great lawyer and having a reputation as a smart guy and somebody who can get things done. I think he was able to build a law practice and sustain it through his career and retire at 65. And, and clearly, that's not what's going on these days. I mean, for a lawyer to be able to do that all on word of mouth would be amazing. But that's not necessarily sustainable. So then what are the things that lawyers really must do in order to make sure that they're, you know, seen as a thought leader, or that they're find the ball and actually, you know, leveraging their marketing?
Jordan Ostroff 4:43
Well, so I think the first thing is, you know, find your niche. I know people talk about that a lot. I always kind of flip it and I tell them, find your ideal client. So go through and really create that ideal client avatar of who you want to work with, what problem you want to solve, because if you know if you're trying to be the best threshold law, anybody who comes across the threshold Have you practice that case, you're not going to appeal to anybody. So the more you can get niche down, the more you can figure that out, the easier it is to figure out what you need to know, the easier you figure out what ads you're on, where you to run those ads, what you want to target, who you want to target, you know, all those things will come from that. And then the beauty of it is, you know, I always get people that give you the, well, if I niche down, I'm gonna lose out on all these things. And I have just found that for us and all of our clients is so not true. You know, if you're only working with people to get in a car accident, we got hit by UPS or FedEx, or the post office, and you hammer that to people left and right, you're going to get a ton of calls there say, Hey, I know you usually only work with blah, blah, blah, but can you help out my buddy, who got hit by you know, a different work truck or you know, something else? And of course you can, it's almost the exact same pace, but you're going to be a lot more memorable, the more you niche down, then we focus on that ideal client.
Steve Fretzin 5:54
And before we go further about anything else beyond that, let's talk a little bit about identifying the target client. I think lawyers sometimes struggle with that they are well, anyone that has a legal issue or anyone that needs a divorce, or anyone that you know, needs to litigate, I'm the guy. So that's a very broad way to look at it. How do you help lawyers sort of redefine their targets and their targeting.
Jordan Ostroff 6:18
So the ideal thing is, we put together a couple of different presentations and worksheets on it. We've got a course coming out later this year, beginning of next year, that'll go into this in more detail that's got like 75 questions, you can ask yourself about your ideal client. So ideally, I want people to do that stuff for free beforehand, because then they're not paying for our time for us to do with them. But for people that are still struggling, literally like we will sit down and as part of our our sales process or our onboarding process, go over that with them. And just, you know, tell me, is there what demographics do they usually have? What kind of job do they have? You know, where are they going to go when they have that problem? Are they younger, and they're going to go to Instagram? Are they going to talk to friends, they're going to talk to teachers, their parents, you know, the more you have that the more you know who you need to target either for referral sources, or for your direct clients if you want, you know, anybody, especially realtors, I think are the worst on this, you know, anybody who wants to buy or sell a house, then you might as well just go to the tallest building and chuck business cards in the wind and hope they magically walk their way into the right place.
Steve Fretzin 7:20
So we have to identify our target clients. And then once we've done that, then we need to look at what niche we can we can sort of you know own?
Jordan Ostroff 7:28
Absolutely.
Steve Fretzin 7:30
Okay, so how does how does someone again, you know, come up with that? What's the not the secret sauce, but maybe what's maybe something like the secret sauce of like getting maybe you have an example of, of a lawyer that you help to figure out a niche?
Jordan Ostroff 7:44
Yeah, absolutely. So I think that, you know, for the lawyers that have been doing this for a while, just think back to those break war stories that you tell everybody, you know, your best worst story might be your niche that might be the one that you want, that might be the type of client you want to work with. So we have, you know, somebody in town here, when I was a prosecutor, one, a defense attorney won a DUI case where their client drove into a steak and shake. And so they were found not guilty, so not drunk, but drove it through the steak and shake. And so we had all these jokes with them about you know how to market and that for the anniversary of the firm, they should buy 20 people steak and shake and just, you know, celebrate this fall when, and you know, it sounds kind of funny, but it's memorable. I mean, that case was probably eight years ago. And I still can tell you a decent amount of facts, I wasn't the prosecutor on it. I wasn't the defense attorney on it. I've seen the pictures after, you know, years after the case took place. So we just stayed in everybody's mind. For anybody, you know, starting off with this, who doesn't have those prior clients, he doesn't have that experience. To some extent, you know, more with you, I'm making it up. And I don't mean faking the story. I mean, coming up with what the story that you want to have in the future, what clients you want to work with, you know, even if you're not working with them, now you might as well start working with, you might as well start trying to find the best people on day one, as opposed to thinking like, well, I need to mess around with this before I can experience before I can put myself in that niche, you're going to just waste so much time, and money and effort and resources.
Steve Fretzin 9:07
I agree with you, but maybe to a degree, I think there's some some people that can snap their fingers and come up with what the niche is, and then you can run with it and, and market it like crazy. There's other people that, you know, maybe they need to prove it out, like they need, you know, I could see, you know, you know, elderly are the key for estate planning, because there's more of them, they need to stay plans or they need to revisit revision. So I'm going to focus on the elderly within my certain area. But that may not be the case. So so maybe it's about trying to get, you know, 50 to 80% of your client base to be that niche, and then once you've kind of proven it out then maybe push the chips in or is that am I going about things the wrong way?
Jordan Ostroff 9:45
No, I mean, I agree with you from that perspective. You know, I we're going to learn so much more from failure or mistakes and we will from successes. And so you know, from those elder law attorneys, I see a lot of people trying to target that market. But then we've seen people that when that markets oversaturated Trying to target people that just had a baby, you know, now is the first time in their life that they need an estate plan as opposed to maybe the end of their life, where they need to make sure that it's correct. And so they're going about the same thing. But by taking that slightly different tack on it, they can spend less on their advertising, they can stand out more in the audience, they can find those clients that other people aren't looking for. And so if you've got enough of a budget, absolutely 100%, or try two or three different ideal clients, or two or three different avenues, a lot of people don't, so maybe a situation where it's like, Look, these are the two or three people that you want to try to find these referral sources, and it's on you to set lunches up with them and stay in touch with them, they're let us run this paperclip campaign for you. And then maybe have your receptionist or current staff member, call every prior client and just check it on. And so by doing those three things, you've got three different avenues to generate business. And then we can sit back in, you know, three or four months and see what's working and where we can tweak. And we can move resources to run Facebook ads, and additional pay per click or, you know, whatever it is from there.
Steve Fretzin 11:00
And what I like, like about what you're saying, Jordan is that if I come to you as a lawyer, and I say, hey, I need a new website, you know, and make it look pretty and make me look smart. And you know, make sure it's attractive, and it's going to represent me well, that that may be fine. And well, however, you're talking about, let's learn about who my target is, let's learn about what my niche should be. Let's let's make sure that the website is focused that it's actually going to accomplish something specific versus just being something to throw up.
Jordan Ostroff 11:30
Yeah, I mean, I, I don't want to say that we've turned down so many clients, but I've told so many clients not to spend money on things. Because you know, you don't need to spend $15,000 on a website, if you're not trying to get digital traffic. You know, if you're if you want to stay all referral base than the website leads needs to look nice enough, that doesn't scare people away. But by the same token, if you're going to run Facebook ads and pay per click ads to your website, It better not look like it was built on, you know, geo cities and 94. Because you're just like throwing money out the window.
Steve Fretzin 12:01
So let's so that leads to another point is, so if I'm looking for a website, you could ask me questions like, what am I using this for? Is it for referral business? And for professional presence? Is this for lead generation? If so, what types of leads? Are you looking for targets? Are you looking to reach out to you? Is this mostly something you're going to use for outbound marketing or inbound marketing? And finally, is this something where you need to have a certain face on it, because you're looking to grow your firm and make sure everyone understands it's a very diverse place, or you're looking for recruitment purposes to get new associates? So there's all these different reasons to have a strong website. And I think you have to ask a lot of questions, right to figure out what someone's needs are.
Jordan Ostroff 12:48
Yeah, 100%, you know, I just I tell everybody, I'm thinking about the next 20 or 30 years. And that's how we make all these decisions. One, because I think it makes you make the right decision if you're building for the long term, whether there's another pandemic like this or not, but also, you know, I hate having people just throw money out the window. And so it's, I need to put this website together, it doesn't have the right foundation, and then I want to drive traffic to it. Well, now you got to go back and rebuild the website to make sure you've got the right stuff in there. And then you're spending that much more money that could have gone in advertising. And so, you know, I'm not telling you that, like, I'll be honest, I used to have a Wix website for my firm when we first started. But after you know, six months, nine months, when I was ready to start actually utilizing it for more than just something for referral sources to look at it got redone.
Steve Fretzin 13:35
I think people also have to be careful with who they choose for you their website, because there's so many people that sort of hang a shingle, and and don't really have a lot of experience. I'll give you a quick example. I remember the gentleman for lunch, who was a legal marketer, and we had this great launch, we built this great rapport. And I said to him, you know, so what law firms have you worked with? And he was like, well, that's confidential. We don't show that information. I said, Well, are there are there some examples on your website or some, some, some websites you could point me to, right, you know, that's confidential. And we don't really do that we don't really have that. And essentially, I felt like this guy was not really a legal marketer, I think he was someone who was interested in getting into the legal marketing space, and was looking for me to provide referrals, which I would have been thrilled to do, had he validated that he had actually had experience doing it. So how do people validate that you're, or you or any company is the right company to help with a website versus just some random person who says they do it?
Jordan Ostroff 14:36
So it's interesting you tell that story? Because I mean, I give people the exact same answer when they asked me that question, except for I will follow up with the closest two or three people that we've worked with that match you and if they're okay with share, then you know, connect you all because I just I hate when you go into the attorneys website, and it's got like, Oh, you know, powered by Scorpion or fine law, or whatever over there. And then you click through it and you realize that there's 15,000 websites up with the same three templates from the company. So that's not what we want from that standpoint, and I don't want you know, I don't want to pull somebody away from us on an outbound link, like that. So we'll we do keep clients confidentiality, but I want you to talk to other clients, like I stand by everything, you know. And I told people, we put together a Facebook group for one of the programs that we work with. And I was like, Look, do me a favor, just post in there, ask whatever questions about me that you want. See what people say, because I'm going to stand behind my work. And that goes back to, you know, looking at things for the next 20 or 30 years, it makes it a lot easier to do right by everybody on each individual discussion. So you don't have as many people out there who hate you. Because you, you know, you did that quick website for them for 1500 bucks. That was a total waste of money. Yeah. So
Steve Fretzin 15:47
I think what you're saying is that confidentiality, yes, but transparency, yes, if, if upon request, or to help to validate that you have people that can talk to your success with them, their website, their marketing, which I think is really important, because as buyers, we're all buyers of different things, right, I've got a plumber downstairs fixing some stuff, and, you know, he's gonna come back with a huge bill I'm gonna have to look at but, you know, we'll buy things. And so I think it's just so important to to, you know, make sure that you're that you're getting referred to someone or that you're getting references, even for my business, I, I don't even bring someone into my program until after they've spoken with two or three of my clients. because on one hand, I want them to hear more about my successes, my return on investment, but also sometimes my clients will come in and go, that person's crazy. Like, you don't want to deal with that person. You know, I you know, they've got a bad reputation, or they're just they're, you know, they they blew me off on the call three times. And they kept making excuses. Well, geez, that's great information for me to have because I, I'm interested in quality people to work with the same way they would want me to be quality to work with them. So I think that's really, that's really important, too, to put out there.
Jordan Ostroff 17:00
Yeah, we we use a it's not an official slogan, but unofficially, I tell people all the time, we treat you the way you treat your clients. And I've had some people look at that as a negative. And I was like, great, cool. You just leave yourself. If you take that as a negative, we don't need to work together. You know, there's plenty of other people.
Steve Fretzin 17:16
Oh, great. I can't wait to treat you like trash, because that's how I treat my clients. Yeah, I think I think I'll say I'll say see you later.
Jordan Ostroff 17:22
Yeah, it was a very, because of course, the more marketing experience people at the company, and the less lawyer ones had were concerned about that very thing. And then it blew up on like, the third person who was a great guys like, this is a this is a wonderful warning for us. This goes to explain to us why it's beneficial. Because, you know, I don't have a one star Google review from the attorney that hates their clients, but also beats their marketing company, because they treat them the way that they treat their client. All right, yeah.
Steve Fretzin 17:49
So so let's assume that we we need a good fit. And, you know, just for making it a little more general statement about marketing for lawyers, and it could be website related. It could be other things that you that you work on Google and stuff like that. What are just maybe three, do it yourself tips, things that lawyers generally don't think about or don't do, that they all need to do. And it may not revolve around hiring something, somebody, it could just be something that you could just advise them on right now that they could fix today.
Jordan Ostroff 18:21
So the first one I tell everybody is your personal social media can be the best source of cases that you have. I think so many of us get wrapped up in this, you know, I need to be that stuffy lawyer wearing a suit who at best rolls up their sleeves, because they're fighting hard for their clients. And I just, I just I don't see that working. I mean, it works for some people, but I don't see that appealing to the average person. I think your clients want to get to know you. And I'm not saying go on Facebook and friend requests all your clients or anything along those lines, but be okay, sharing your actual stuff. Like for us for last Halloween, my kids two and a half now. So he was one and a half then and so we went as sharks. So because of Baby shark, Daddy shark, mommy shark. And also being lawyers, it was funny that, you know, I dress up as a shark, and then my wife dress up as a lifeguard. And so we you know, we shared a photo of everybody the firm dressed up in there Halloween stuff, and that and that got more engagement than anything else, because people got to see that we're actually real humans. So that's the first one. The second one is, I think the assuming everybody has an iPhone or a decent Android, you have the best piece of technology right there on you at all times. And I wouldn't I would get used to videotaping yourself if it's driving in the car. If it's sitting at your office, you know, shooting 30 to 62nd clips on different questions, different topics, different whatever, even if you don't do anything with it. Now just do that and save it you'll get a lot more comfortable presenting in any manner. If we don't go back to in person court for a long time and we're staying virtual that will help you do better during virtual hearings. For me, I hate talking while sitting down I've had to learn that over zoom. I'm used to standing up in Presenting in a courtroom. So I've really had to just sit in front of a camera like we're doing now. And just talk while sitting in a seat and still try to have you know, emphasis and all those things. And then also the the, I'm going to cheat and use. The third one also is the phone. For an iPhone, you have the opportunity to have 50 favorites in the phone, most of the Android's will give you something similar, that's a great, really cheap free sort of CRM. So I would pick you know, 10, or 15 of your closest friends and family to get the top spots, then I pick 30, 35 of your best clients, your best referral sources, your mentors, whatever and fill it and then when you're bored, just go through those favorites in your phone and send a text message. If you see an article that makes you think of that person, shoot it over if you you know, if you're driving 20 minutes to court or home from work or whatever, go down the list and call people and just check in. You know, I think that we have a great opportunity during COVID to stand out and get market share by still being out by still talking to people by still checking in on people. And it all goes back to you know, genuinely caring about other human beings. But if anybody listening to this doesn't truly genuinely care about other human beings, that's a much different conversation that we have to have that will take way too long to talk about right now.
Steve Fretzin 21:10
Or we could just tell them to go sit on attack
Jordan Ostroff 21:13
Yeah. Go find that attorney that didn't want to work with us because of how they treat their clients, you guys.
Steve Fretzin 21:21
I gotta say, I like all three points, you make authenticity. And you know, using your iPhone or Android for putting together some maybe some educational clips are some authentic clips about your life that you can share. And the third one I absolutely loved was worth the price of admission for the people listening. And because the idea that you could put 50 people on your phone, and again, just have those clients have those strategic partners, your referral sources right there in front of you. And get into a habit of emailing calling texting, secretly shared screen was a call that via FaceTime, that's really great, because I think most attorneys don't do that they don't have a list of names that are easily accessible of the right people. So therefore, they don't do some of the basic marketing, like calling somebody that they should call every month or every quarter, once a week or whatever. So I think that's really, really a great tip.
Jordan Ostroff 22:19
Thank you. Yeah, it's just, it's amazing to me how you know, like you were talking about your dad, we learn all these things of how things were done in the 70s, the 80s, 90s. And then I think people went so far into the digital marketing marketplace, and all those that we lost the benefit of having, you know, the backbone, or a second thing, just being genuine human connections.
Steve Fretzin 22:40
Yeah, I agree. I agree. And I think we also have to understand that there's marketing, and there's business development, and they interact. And I know, do you have a definition for the difference between marketing and business development? If not, I do.
Jordan Ostroff 22:53
So from my perspective, you know, like marketing is the rectangle and business development is a square, you know, I look at marketing is everything that you were doing with the understanding to generate cases. And then I think part of that is sales. Part of that is business development. Part of that is networking. Part of that is relationship building. That's my perspective on it.
Steve Fretzin 23:11
Okay, so you've got, but they enter the intersect in that, you know, the, I meet someone through a networking events, okay, I want to meet with them, they then go into my website, they go into my social media, they start reading articles, they look at my podcast. So the marketing and the business development work hand in hand, to build up that authenticity, or to build up that sort of value of white of what I'm doing in the marketplace. And then when we meet and talk about how we can work together, right, I'm in a much better place than I was if if they didn't know me from Adam.
Jordan Ostroff 23:45
Yeah, I got to tell you, three or four weeks ago, I spent like two hours going on LinkedIn, I googled myself, I try to find podcasts I had been on articles I've written over the past and just put them on my LinkedIn. And I've gotten so many more, you know, connections and accepted connection requests from that, because people are like, Oh, they put the time and effort they did these things they were on so and so's show, they wrote for Smith on AI, you know, whatever it was, you really get a lot of that benefit. So I just I love how I love how you're talking about giving people that understanding of, if somebody really cares, they're going to look in your interior, at least professional life, and you want to hope that they get the right image from that search.
Steve Fretzin 24:23
Yeah, and I think if you google yourself, and you don't see you know, a lot there, you're being confused with an actor or something like that, then you really should be concerned that you're not if you're not finable it's almost like you don't exist in the, in the marketing world, right? Because you're just you're not finable so I want to use you but I go to look for you and you're not there. That's terrible. Like that's, that's you're at a major disadvantage. So I think that you know, content social media website, like it all works together to make sure that you're the real deal the same way we look at, you know, I'm going to go to a restaurant for the first time. I want See Yelp reviews, I want to look at Urban speed and know that it's that the restaurant is a real thing. You know, and I want to read something good about it, you know, as opposed to this place is a dump and the food's terrible. And I got food poisoning. You know, obviously, that's not going to be, you know, somewhere, I'm going to go.
Jordan Ostroff 25:16
Yeah, it's interesting. You mentioned that, because that I've been on that kick lately. They did a couple studies about online reviews, because obviously, look, we're all selling a service. And so like, we can't talk about the best widget, you know, we can't talk about the latest feature that we have, we're going on the promise of future performance in terms of a service. And so the article was talking about that, honestly, you'll do better as a 4.9 on Google, than you will as a 5.0. Because people will subconsciously think a 5.0 you know, you paid for all these reviews, you made sure the bad ones went away. But for nine, they're like, okay, I'll take the chance that, you know, 99 times out of 100, I'll have a five star service. Because of that, you know, that point one makes me really odd, you know, no interest. And obviously, that's going to come into play when you've got you know, 50 reviews, 100 reviews, 1000 reviews, that may not matter as much if you've got you know, three and one of them is not great. But it makes total sense. Because I'm with you, that's no matter. It could be my wife telling me it's the best food she ever had. I'm still looking the place that
Steve Fretzin 26:16
You're not very trusting. I see.
Jordan Ostroff 26:18
It's about food. You know, I can't see me but I also yeah,
Steve Fretzin 26:22
It's very personal. All I want to know, and this is a compliment to my wife who's not and who's never gonna hear this is the food better than my wife can make. That's what I care about. She's such a great cook great, you know, such she's such a great and diverse sort of menu of things she makes. And when we go to a restaurant, it's just like, Oh, god, they're gonna have a filet that's better than hers. Are they going to have eggplant parmesan better than hers. And if it isn't, then it's like, great. I'm paying $35 for a dish that I can get at home, you know, better. And that's where that's where things start to get, you know, start to get messy. Anyway, so Jordan, I was just ranting when I'm but let me ask you. How do people get in touch with you? They say this guy this guy seems bright. And he seems like he really is knows, you know, knows how to take people in the right direction does quality work? How do they get in touch with you to get a conversation?
Jordan Ostroff 27:13
So honestly, I'm going to Zig well, everybody's Zags. If somebody is listening to this and wants to get in touch, I would suggest find me on LinkedIn, Jordan Ostroff, there are only two of us. The other one is in Boston, Massachusetts, and has nothing to do with the law. I'm the one in Orlando, Florida, check out my stuff on LinkedIn, I try to post every day with helpful tips that I wish I knew three years ago, five years ago, seven years ago. And I'd rather you go through and vet me based upon what I'm posting there, then check out our website and like the flash. And so that would be my suggestion.
Steve Fretzin 27:45
And then they like what you have on LinkedIn and like the things you're writing about, etc. And then they can reach out to you to talk about their personal needs.
Jordan Ostroff 27:53
Yeah, absolutely. shoot me a message on there comment on something. I just, you know, I really, I always tell people you want to follow people that walk the walk and don't just talk the talk. So if I'm, if I'm going to tell you to post on your personal LinkedIn every, you know, three to five times a week to share your message, you know, you better hope I'm doing the same thing for myself.
Steve Fretzin 28:12
I think that's I think that's great. And, again, just goes to show, you know, if you're good at something you don't have to sell. People are going to want to work with you because of what you're putting out there and your general mindset and approach to things and I love yours. So I appreciate you coming on the show.
Jordan Ostroff 28:28
Thank you so much for having me. It's really wonderful.
Steve Fretzin 28:30
Hey, my pleasure, Jordan. Hey everybody, listen, I hope you got some good takeaways and tips ideas from Jordan and I today. Again, the goal is to keep getting closer and closer to being that lawyer someone who's confident organized in a skilled Rainmaker. Take care be safe. We'll talk soon. Bye Bye.
Narrator 28:51
Thanks for listening to be that lawyer. Life Changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve's website Fretzin.com. For additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today's episode, check out today's show notes.