In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jane Tabachnick discuss:
Key Takeaways:
You can’t have a business if you aren’t doing marketing or at least have someone else doing your marketing or your business development. It just doesn’t happen magically for anybody.” — Jane Tabachnick
Connect with Jane Tabachnick:
Website: simplygoodpress.com
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/janetabachnick
Twitter: twitter.com/janetabachnick
Facebook: facebook.com/jmtabachnick
References:
HARO: helpareporter.com
The Go Giver: amazon.com/Go-Giver-Expanded-Little-Powerful-Business/dp/1591848288
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: Steve@Fretzin.com
Book: The Ambitious Attorney: Your Guide to Doubling or Even Tripling Your Book of Business and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
Jane Tabachnick 0:00
The other thing that I really recommend doing is what I call hugging influencer. So it takes a couple of minutes a day, you're probably already doing it. If you're on social media, whether it's LinkedIn or Facebook, Twitter, whatever the medium is, you're following someone or you see an article that you like, share it, comment, tag the journalist.
Narrator 0:29
You're listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here's your host, Steve Fretzin!
Steve Fretzin 0:51
Hey, everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. As you probably have figured out, I am the host, Steve Fretzin and, and I'm just so happy to be here with you today. You know, as you guys might realize, business development and marketing and branding has become one of the most important things you need to learn as a lawyer. If this is your first time hearing the show, then maybe this first time you're hearing this ever, my guess is probably not, you're probably beat over the head with it daily, which is a good thing, because it's important to have your own clients and to have that type of freedom and independence that comes with building your own book of business. And so that's what this show is all about. And to that end. And to help you with that further, I have a terrific guest today. She's the founder of simply good press. Her name's Jane to bochenek. And she's terrific. And welcome, Jane.
Jane Tabachnick 1:36
Hey, Steve, I'm so excited to be here.
Steve Fretzin 1:38
I'm so excited to have you and spend some time looking at your background just incredibly impressive. As an author I you know, appreciate people that help not only with branding, but getting books together. I know that's that's quite a challenging thing to do.
Jane Tabachnick 1:50
Would you do me a favor though, since I did terrible job on my introduction, and I said nothing but your background? Really? Could you give my audience a once over on a little bit about how you came to be? Sure. So I actually started out as a fashion designer. And as a fashion designer, what I realized was that no one knew who I was. And it was hard to get in front of people, it didn't matter how great my designs were just like, as a lawyer, you could be winning cases, and no one's heard of you. And you're not being seen whether it's in a Google search, or in a directory or through word of mouth. So I realized I needed that visibility and the credibility that comes with the media. And so I started going after some publicity, and it was a little bit of trial and error. This is pre internet. So it was a very different type of way of operating. But I finally had some success, and it was a game changer. Now when I call a department store, they say, Oh, we've been hearing about you, when can you come in. So it was like the doors open there was like this gliding sidewalk that I was now moving across instead of having doors close in my face. So it was it really was kind of magical like that. And when I decided to get out of the fashion industry, I took stock of what I had done what I felt that I was good at. And I enjoyed. And that was the PR and the visibility, that I was helping my clients get that authority positioning that they all needed, no matter what industry you're in, it really makes a difference to your business, getting visibility and creating that authority positioning. And I just want to share something that a lot of people don't know. And I'm not going to go into a lot of the backstory, but I ended up having a couple of legal issues that I needed to deal with. And I couldn't afford an attorney for very long. And the outcome of it all was that it really taught me how to be a better writer. So I appreciate that. And it gave me an insight into the process, which I feel like I can bring to my clients as well.
Steve Fretzin 3:57
Yeah, I think understanding the law and how lawyers are different is critical in in doing business development, PR marketing, and even when I try to work with agencies that don't understand legal, it really is frustrating, because there it is, it is a niche that is very is truly unique. And people could say it's not, but I think it is. And so we've got, you know, the way that we treat them, and the way that we work with them is just you know, there's some intricacies to it that are different than working with, let's say, you know, an accountant or working with, you know, just consultants somewhere.
Jane Tabachnick 4:29
Exactly. And understanding that makes you better at being able to support and help attorneys grow their firms.
Steve Fretzin 4:37
Yeah. And let's start off with I think, a good question, which is why do attorneys struggle with brand building and getting their name out there and getting, you know, becoming more well known?
Jane Tabachnick 4:49
Yeah, I think in my opinion, it's just not something that they think they'll have to focus on. I think it's not taught that much in the law schools that I'm aware of in those places. And I think there's a certain resistance to it as a professional, you think I shouldn't have to do that, as if marketing or doing publicity is kind of like, it's like a dirty word. You know, it's like, I don't want to say essentially beneath them, but I think some people just want to focus on the good legal work they do. But that's not how business works. You can't have a business, if you don't at least have someone else doing your marketing or your business development. It just doesn't happen magically for anybody.
Steve Fretzin 5:30
Well, if you think, you know, publicity, branding, and marketing are bad words, you should try saying the word sales in front of a lawyer, they'll either punch you in the face, or they'll hide under the desk, one of the two outcomes. I'm just kidding, of course. But it is, you know, it's funny, because I actually people don't know this. So here's kind of a new thing people have never heard before I started working with attorneys, my company was actually called sales results, Inc. and I still have that name affirmed my, you know, incorporation, and I had to change it to frets and ink because these attorneys were carrying around my books in my materials, that sales results, and they just felt a little icky about the whole name. And they just finally came to me. And I was like, Okay, all right, listen, I get it, we can bring it down a notch. And so now we call it business development, because it makes everybody feel warm and fuzzy, at least to the degree that we can get them to that place. So what you're saying, though, round, it's a little bit challenging, it's not something learned, it can be a little bit, you know, something they don't really feel that they should ever have to do. Now. The reality is, right, quite different than talk about that.
Jane Tabachnick 6:28
Yeah, well, attorneys are trained, especially litigators are trained to be great storytellers. So they're naturally doing PR in a certain sense. I mean, they're more skilled at it, and probably have more training than a lot of us. But they may not see it as being used in that way. And because of confidentiality, obviously, they can't necessarily tell some of the stories of their clients. And, you know, even cases that are now perhaps public. So there are limitations on how they can use it, which I'm sure they're aware of. But there are so many things that they can do, to use those stories or to lend their expertise. And that's part of what it's really about is sharing your expertise in a way that is relatable for the audience or for your prospect. So it's very easy. I know, I'm kind of a geeky tech, and I can start talking in jargon and not meaning to, but it's just if I'm working on something technical, that's the language of it. And I forget if someone is in front of me who's not comfortable with that are familiar with it, that it's like a totally foreign language. And so knowing who you're in front of and what language they relate to, just like the story of your business, that's such a good case in point, you know, it's all about the positioning, and what the other person is receptive to, that makes it approachable and relatable. And so it's finding out what does your audience perceive? What are they interested in? What matters to them? And then focusing on those things in the very words that they themselves would use? Not that necessarily legal terms. Right,
Steve Fretzin 8:08
right. Keep it simple. Keep it simple. Yeah, so smart way to go. So let's get into the potential ideas or solutions that you recommend to your clients and that you'd recommend to my audience are there. Let's start off with the free stuff. And you know, there are a couple of things that lawyers could do without hiring an expert to come in and help them and if they get eventually they may want to do that. Because if things go to the next level, you want to bring in a professional, but there might be some basic level things that you could, you know, mention that they could get real value from if they just took a little initiative.
Jane Tabachnick 8:38
Yeah, the first one is really simple. It's called help a reporter out the acronym is Harrow. And basically, it's a newsletter that you sign up for it that sends you queries, I call it a journalist matchmaking service, because it will match you up with journalists who are working on a story and they need your expertise is simple and easy. Everyone knows how to use email. You just have to answer their questions. You don't need to come up with story ideas. You don't need to figure out what publication what journalists, and the good news is a story has already been approved to run. So you'll probably get pressed pretty quickly. If you respond to something and it gets used. They're usually just looking for a quote or something.
Steve Fretzin 9:20
They're looking for a quote, a case study may be an interpretation of a new law that's pending, or that's gotten passed. Okay. Now, is that something that could be the start of a potential relationship with someone in the media? Or is that just a one and done in your out situation?
Jane Tabachnick 9:37
Well, like anything, relationships are really everything with the media. So I've built great relationships with people whose query I've responded to, and then just stay in touch or said, you know, if you ever need another source, please reach out I have a good network. So not just saying if it's a story for me, but if you need somebody else, I'm happy to see who I know in mind. At work, who I can connect you with. And the other thing that I really recommend doing is what I call hugging influencer. So it takes a couple of minutes a day, you're probably already doing it. If you're on social media, whether it's LinkedIn or Facebook, Twitter, whatever the medium is, you're following someone or you, you see an article that you like, share it, comment, tag, the journalist, this will help put you on their radar, this will help them get some recognition. And then when you're ready to pitch them a story, your name will be familiar. And they'll read your pitch, it may not get approved, they may not go with it, but at least the chances of getting read are much higher. And you know, it feels good to help somebody else out.
Steve Fretzin 10:49
Yeah, it sounds like you're just improving the odds, it's not about perfection, it's about just going from 25% to 50%. But that's still you know, worth your time and reaching out with a comment or share something that's going to add value. And then maybe that builds over time to increase those odds. And it's done sort of with integrity and done with the right positivity not done, you know, with intent to get something out of it necessarily.
Jane Tabachnick 11:11
Exactly. Just you know, it goes back to there's a book that I really liked, called the go giver, and it's just, you know, help someone else get what they want, and it'll help you get what you want. That's actually from Zig Ziglar. But I think the essence is the same as the book The go, giver by Bob Berg. So you know, journalists, a lot of journalists nowadays are freelance, and they need to get visibility as well. So they can keep getting those jobs and paying the bills. So you're helping them out as well as it's good. You know, it feels good to get the feedback, you put out a newsletter or a post and no one comments, and it's very frustrated, you know, you start to question yourself, and is it worth the bother? Is anyone listening? Has anyone read it?
Steve Fretzin 11:55
So let me ask this question. If a lawyer thinks that he or she has a great idea that is media worthy, what is the best thing for them to do to try to get it into the media to try to get have a shot at doing something because they did just win a case and they can talk about it openly. Or they have an angle on the new tax that you know that Biden's putting out or whatever the tax law, the way they're changing, and they've got an angle on it, they want to get in front of it? How can they work with that?
Jane Tabachnick 12:25
Yeah, great question. So the first thing is you really need to know, your audience and what your goals are. Are you looking for national coverage? Or are you looking for more regional, you know, if you're a New Jersey divorce attorney, maybe getting national coverage is always great. But maybe getting local coverage is really what is going to take to boost your business, because you're only licensed in the state of New Jersey. So that's where your business is going to come from. So you want to look at the local media or the national media, whichever the case may be, and see who's writing a story similar to what your ideas about who's covering legal or government or you know, whatever it is, and then start following them, start commenting, if there's that option, and then make an introduction. And just you know, if you want to comment on a new tax law that's coming, you could say, if you need to source on this tax law, this is my expertise. And I'd be happy to comment on it. Just let them know you're available. And you can even nowadays, it's great to share with them the tech setup that you have, because it's a challenge if it's an on air or an audio interview, to make sure that the expert has the right tech setup. So the quality is broadcast quality if it's print, or online, not as important.
Steve Fretzin 13:45
Right, right. Okay. And I guess we could go the other way. And let's say that there's something that comes out in the press that maybe isn't great about a case are about a lawyer. And I know that the relationship management is become a big thing in with law firms and making sure that things stay positive. But what happens when something comes out that maybe isn't flattering? Is there something that they could do about that?
Jane Tabachnick 14:09
Yes, it depends on the severity of it. Sometimes you need a crisis management PR firm for that there are firms that specialize in that. And so, especially because your audience is lawyers, I don't want to advise them. I say talk to a cry, you know, it's worth a conversation with a crisis PR firm to see if it's a fit or not. And then you can go from there.
Steve Fretzin 14:35
Well, I'll share I'll share a funny thing that happened to me a few years ago, I got invited to speak at the Chicago Bar Association, women's Alliance by a client of mine who's a woman and it's somehow it got into the press that I was doing this presentation for women and they came out without asking for a quote or anything for me, came out with a picture of me with her, not me but like a person with a bag on his head that said, Man that I was basically mansplaining And it was like, they didn't ask to interview me. They didn't ask for a quote or anything or like what this was about. They just, you know, read sort of what it was and went off on a tangent. I think it was more like, I don't know, eye candy for getting clicks clickbait, if you will. So but I reached out to the reporter and said, Hey, this is I think, unfair, you know, we can I respond, or would you turn she, of course, never responded to me. But is that something that you find out or that is there something I could have done better?
Jane Tabachnick 15:27
The only thing that I might have tried in that case? You mean, I think you did. You did good. Your approach was appropriate, but would be to have gotten the host organization to reach out to the reporter are they.
Steve Fretzin 15:39
Yeah, they did that they did they No. obligation? Yeah, no, no, they got they reached out to the publication and let them know, listen, this is not at all what you think that we don't think Steve is mansplaining. We're interested in business development, just like you know, men are and he's an authority has worked with women and men. So they didn't retract it or anything like that. But it will least they put out their statement from the Chicago Bar Association in the women's alliance that they don't believe I'm mansplaining. I don't like to think I man's my wife will tell you, I don't generally do that. So maybe that's something but anyway, I thought it kind of interesting. And then it actually took off. And I got picked up by a bunch of other like Facebook groups and stuff. And, and it was just it could have been like, I don't know if there was going to be people like with signs outside of the Chicago, tomatoes, throwing tomatoes at me as I walk in and make this presentation. But anyway, that's crazy. But on to the next sort of topic I have for you now that my crazy stories out of the way, what are some things that general brand building, there's maybe two or three things that you could share that where you say, you know, here's two or three things every lawyer should do when if they're ready to begin to or want to develop their brand that they could do today, tomorrow that would really help that would really push them in a positive direction? What would the what would those two or three things be?
Jane Tabachnick 16:52
Yes, so I think one of the things that you can do is to contribute bylined articles, to some of those same publications that, again, if you're going after a local audience, or a national audience, you'd want to select a publication that your audience of your prospects read, and then write an article that would be of general interest to them. But that explained, showcases your expertise. So it could be you know, five things to think about before you hire an attorney or, and sometimes it sounds very basic, but it's the kind of thing that many of us need before we start working with an attorney. Or if we need to change attorneys, or we have a new situation in life. And it positions you as an expert. And if it's done right, it's really great with what I call search engine love. So if someone Google's, you know, I'm looking for a divorce, that underweight divorce is on my mind today. I'm not going through one, but okay, if you're looking for a divorce attorney, and you did a search for divorce attorney New Jersey, if the article was done right, then that might come up in that search. And that would be beneficial, because someone would immediately instead of just seeing the Google listings or the websites, which are what are called owned media, something that the law firms themselves put out, they would see earned media, which is press that you get. So basically, the earned media is something you've earned the right to, you've earned the prestige and the respect of a publication. So they've showcased you whether they've written about you or they've published an article that you've written. And this is way more authoritative and credible, because it provides third party credibility. So basically, no one cares what you say about you. They care what someone else says about you the media, Google reviews, Yelp reviews,
Steve Fretzin 18:55
got nothing. What do you got a tornado warning going on over there? I do. It's actually an amber alert. So sorry, no, is there something we should alert my audience today? I'm just not doing that? Hopefully not. But I think those are some great ideas. And you know, I've written down at least four or five really strong takeaways from just the short time we've had together. If people are interested in learning more about you, or possibly, you know, looking to engage you because they're looking for help beyond what they're able to do on their own. How do people reach out to you what are your digits, if you will?
Jane Tabachnick 19:26
Yes. So if you go to simplygoodpress.com, you will find me and what I wanted to share, if I may, is that I have a visibility assessment on my website. It's fun, it's free. And don't be intimidated by it. I know some people like oh my god, I'm gonna flunk It's not like that. All it does is give you an idea of what you're already doing in terms of your visibility opportunities, and what other opportunities there are for you. So it's kind of fun, and it just is information that you can decide how you want to use.
Steve Fretzin 19:58
Yeah, and I think it's all important forever. Buddy, whether it's business development, marketing PR for us all to figure out some way to self evaluate and understand where we really come in or in the areas that we need to improve on. Right. Otherwise, how do we get better?
Jane Tabachnick 20:10
Exactly.
Steve Fretzin 20:11
Well, thank you so much for being on the show and for sharing your wisdom. You know, hopefully, we'll get to do this again some time and just really appreciate you. Thanks for having me, Steve. It's my pleasure. And listen, everybody, I hope that you are like me and I sit here you know, I don't know about you all. But I sit here and I'm scrolling down notes and ideas and thinking about how I can take advantage of some of the things that my guests and Jane today is are talking about if you guys do that, but I do it again. They call every time you listen to this show is getting one step closer to being that lawyer, someone who's confident, organized in a skilled Rainmaker, and hopefully that's the direction you're heading. And hopefully I can help. Listen, everybody, take care, be safe. Appreciate your spending some time with me today. Bye Bye.
Narrator 20:56
Thanks for listening to be that lawyer. Life Changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve's website Fretzin.com for additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today's episode, check out today's show notes.