In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Ian Garlic discuss:
Key Takeaways:
"When we started putting videos on websites, we could put videos anywhere and do anything, it was new, and people click on it, watch it. Now, you're battling against cats and babies, you've got to have intent with the videos, you've got to have it in the right place and integrate it with the website." — Ian Garlic
Connect with Ian Garlic:
Website: IanGarlic.com & StoryCrews.com
Show: iangarlic.com/podcasts
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/iangarlic
Twitter: twitter.com/iangarlic
Facebook: facebook.com/ian.garlic
Go to storycrews.com/fretzin to get your FREE Storyboard Blueprint and other lawyer resources!
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: Steve@Fretzin.com
Book: The Ambitious Attorney: Your Guide to Doubling or Even Tripling Your Book of Business and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
Ian Garlic 0:00
When you think that way, with someone else business, your marketing, worked with someone like you and has a defined process, understand when I say marketing, I don't put the same video on Facebook that I put on YouTube, its intent versus attention. I don't put the same one on Instagram stories that I put on LinkedIn intention versus attention.
Narrator 0:24
You're listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach Steve Fretzin will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here's your host, Steve Fretzin!
Steve Fretzin 0:46
Hey, everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. I'm Steve Fretzin. And I hope you're having a great day today. Just a little bit about myself. I'm a business development coach and trainer for attorneys here in Chicago, but working nationally, in some cases internationally. I also run peer advisory group. So if you're interested in networking and working with with a team of lawyers to help you take things to the next level, and be accountable to that team of lawyers, then I also provide those services. You can find all that on my website frets and calm. And listen, I've got a really interesting in crazy, good guest today for you. He's got a lot of different titles. He's the founder of story cruise. He's the CEO of authentic web, and he's the host of the garlic Marketing Show. Ian garlic. Ian, how you doing?
Ian Garlic 1:31
I'm doing awesome. Steve, thank you so much for having me on.
Steve Fretzin 1:34
Yeah. My pleasure. Do you run into people that say i-n? Because that's annoying to me?
Ian Garlic 1:38
Well, I'm actually
Steve Fretzin 1:40
Are you an I-N? Yes. No, you're not. Oh, my God, I only called you Ian about 100 times. Anyway,
Ian Garlic 1:47
it's one of the things I don't even notice. And it's funny, just on a side note, because I've never actually talked someone else named iron. And I'm working directly with someone named iron right now. And it's hard for me to call him I and he has the same problem. So it's no big deal. But
Steve Fretzin 2:03
I want I want to make a comment that that most people named iron when called Ian, get really upset that I've experienced. And so it's it's, you know, unless I hear them say their own name. I and I don't ask I just assume it's Ian. Unless I'm told otherwise, which just happened. So
Ian Garlic 2:18
Yeah, I you know, it's funny. It's just like, No, I've been called a lot worse.
Steve Fretzin 2:23
Now. All right. Well, yeah. If you've got that, if you've got that background, then you can go from there.
Ian Garlic 2:27
And it's funny, when everyone asked me to spell it, I'm like, It's Ian just pronounced the wrong way.
Steve Fretzin 2:32
There you go. Right. Right. Okay. Awesome. Well, I'm going to Ianing this up. And I'm gonna start, I'm gonna start, you know, focusing on the right pronunciation. So do me a favor, give my audience a little background, because you've you've quite an interesting story.
Ian Garlic 2:46
Yeah, I mean, if you go all the way back, I worked, you know, Wall Street for hedge fund, I was trader, we're moving into commercial real estate in New York City and realized I love the marketing, the marketing aspect of it. And commercial real estate in New York City, especially I'm doing big buildings is brutally brutal. And I'm just not a brutally brutal person. And so I got into, I got into attorney marketing consulting in New York City, and this was 2007, in 2006, 2007 and, you know, work for one of the big companies as a consultant, and realize that when YouTube was purchased by Google, I was like, Man, this is gonna change everything. Because, you know, I worked with all these attorneys, and I felt like all their marketing looks the same. And I realized that each one of the attorneys I dealt with wanted to work with different people, they enjoy different things, they enjoy different aspects, and they, everyone thinks they're competing against each other, and they're not. And YouTube was gonna let them tell their story, connect with the right people because they could see them and feel them before they made that phone call. And because it was Google buying it, they weren't gonna let it fail. And it was going to involve the search. So you're gonna have that intent, and there's gonna be a lot of technical stuff going on. So luckily, my roommates slash girlfriend now wife was also, you know, has a master's in from NYU and 3d design animation work for Nickelodeon at the time, and Miramax so starting a video agency, which we did was really easy. I mean, as easy as it can be, because I had the resources, and I always kind of was into filmmaking. And so we started a video agency and you know, over the years we've evolved and worked with a lot of attorneys help them grow, enjoy their business, which I love. I mean, you when we talk and you talk about helping people enjoy their business, that's my one of my favorite things, too. And, you know, we've grown and become one of the leading video companies for attorneys, you know, for a long time, we had to sell the idea video because you know, figure 10 years ago, people get the idea of video on the internet. And now it's obvious, but we've developed the systems. You know, I'm well known for video case stories and about us videos. So people were flying us all around and I can't fly everywhere. So we start to train other videographers in that And that's where story crews came in. Because, you know, if you've hired a videographer, it's like saying, Well, you know, anyone can open up a video camera, anyone can shoot it. And in fact, anyone can shoot a film make a film. But is that a sales tool? Is that finding the stories is that the understand the marketing? Do they understand the format, so they understand those things. And 99% of people I hired didn't didn't know how to interview properly. So that's where we start training other videographers. And while we still have the agency, we also have story crews calm. And that's my long story.
Steve Fretzin 5:32
But it's a good story. And I think it you hit a couple points that really resonated with me, because, you know, there's, there's definitely something about about being industry specific. I mean, you can know a lot of industries. But if you can figure out one where, you know, there's there's a secret sauce, or there's there's a process to follow, where you know, you've got proven results in case studies and things that work, then I think you're you're going to be a much better choice than someone who's just like, what do you want a video about? You know, and, you know, where do I start? Where do you want me? You know, you're the video guy, you're the you're the expert in video? Why are you asking me? You should have asked me all these questions, you know, months ago? They don't, but they don't they don't always do that. So how do transitioning them? How do lawyer videos differ from other videos in other industries? What have you found to really work in the legal space helping lawyers?
Ian Garlic 6:30
It's, that's a big, big question, because there are similarities. And there's differences. You know, and I think from vertical to vertical within each lawyer practice area, there's differences. Because of, you know, the by cycle, and you know, we do a lot with Elder Law, that's, you know, can be a month, two year long years long buying cycle and with repeat customers, whereas criminal offense, it's a much shorter buy cycle. And hopefully, they don't repeat customers, even though they do have repeat customers. So, you know, it does vary, because you have someone who's not in the industry. And like many services, what most lawyers don't realize, and this is where the biggest mistakes are made is that they get way too technical. And they talk too much about themselves, and too much about their accolades early on. And people, people want to feel something they want to buy from that person. And I think that's an important thing attorneys need to realize is they want to buy from you, they want to know that you've helped someone like them, they want to know how it's gonna feel to work with you. And I think that, you know, the attorneys that are realizing that and standing out, that's super, super important not to look like other attorneys. Now more than ever, and I think that's important for everyone. That's, that's one of the big ones. And additionally, there's a lot more SEO opportunities, I think, in video, SEO, because people are looking for all these answers that lawyers put out there. So you know, there are so many aspects to a legal case. And all along the case, people are doing research, and they're doing research. And if you tell them something, they tell them, and YouTube's the second most used search engine. So you don't have to sell someone on the idea of getting divorced or not going to jail, or you know, or doing any of this stuff, you know, Elder Law, there's a bit of, of building up the need, but there's a point where they, they need it. And you can be there so long along the way, in just answering questions, and then finally telling your story. That's a huge, huge opportunity still for a lot of attorneys. And additionally, you know, being who you are, is important, and segmenting out and telling who you want to work with and who you don't want to work with. And we've taught you, you know, you talk about that, and sales, and videos can do the same thing. And that's what a lot of attorneys are worried about, it's like only a turn off these people and like that you want those people. And most time you don't, let's turn those people off. Because you'll attract more of the people that you really want to work with.
Steve Fretzin 8:59
Yeah, sometimes, we're so afraid of the loss of something that we don't take the chance to really target and focus on the stuff that's the business we really want or the business that's going to make us happy. And that we're we're best suited to solve or best suited to help. So you mentioned that the videos need to be authentic, they need to maybe tell a story. And so what's what does that look like from like a case study? What like what would be an example of a video that you did recently for a lawyer where that video is producing value for them in in lead generation or in in getting people to reach out proactively?
Ian Garlic 9:40
Yeah, I mean, one of the big things that we do a lot is case stories, and I call them case stories. Because a case study the big mistake is you know, they'll say, Well, this is the case and then they'll get into case details that no one cares about and no one understands. But if they get that story out of there, what was that person Feeling Why didn't they want to go with an attorney? You know, one of my favorite ones of all time that we did was for a federal criminal defense attorney here in Orlando, Mark Horwitz, and it's an older video now. But it you know, this guy was arrested and talks about, you know, years of dealing with the FBI and what it was like, for the FBI to knock at your door, you know, and someone can connect with that, and they pay attention to that. And, you know, but then what was like to go through the process, and all those feelings through the process. And then at the end, what it was like, not to hear that it was over, not just say, Oh, they got me a great verdict. But what did it feel like? And what I love about it is that I can show that story, you know, because I do lots of public speaking one right now I know. But, you know, when public speaking was a big thing, and I would show that video, and to any audience, and they would sit and watch it for five minutes. And that is super successful for engaging people, letting them know what it is to, you know, how it is to feel to work with you. And one of the biggest mistakes I see is a not making these stories, and being not using these stories everywhere in the marketing. And when they do. It's, I get that every time from clients, they add a couple of their videos, and then it's like, people are there, like, people just walk through the door if you'd like, they know me already and know our business already. And there's no 90 minute sales process. It's just like, Where do I sign up?
Steve Fretzin 11:26
Yeah, yeah, that's great. So that's, you know, just another way that videos can help, you know, kind of change the dimension of the relationship or how that evolves? Before you even have to spend time with somebody.
Ian Garlic 11:38
Yep. Yeah, you can. And you know, there's a series of videos that I tell people, you know, you should have your frequently asked questions, because, you know, somebody emails you, you know, the my video answers like, hey, I've already prepared that. And then you know, your, your clients stories and your about us, so if someone gets to know you before they come in, and we can talk about why most people are doing the Bible's wrong. But also your process is so important to have. Because in and there's certain format to doing it because you don't want it to be a process your process, you want to be the process that the client feels, because you know how many times if you're an attorney, you think, Well, everyone understands that state don't most people have never been through a process. And in fact, I've worked with other personal injury attorneys on cases that I needed. And, you know, for family members or friends, and everyone's process is different, and I didn't know what was gonna happen. And it's such an opportunity to break down that barrier of trepidation. And also future pace that person. So these are just opportunities to connect along the way. And you should be delivering those all throughout the your entire process.
Steve Fretzin 12:44
So how to, like, videos working with a website in unison, and the job of that video is, you know, there's multiple jobs that that videos is produced to, to to, to assist with, what are the things that the video assists with? And where do they go on the website? How does that best fit within a website structure?
Ian Garlic 13:04
I mean, that's a great question, because I see it done so wrong. And in fact, someone was, you know, pointing out to me another identical last week, I was working with an attorney. And she's putting me on one of her competitors or peers websites, I don't know if their competitor, check, I love this website. And you know, it has video here and here and like, but that that video is just in the wrong place. Because you have to, you know, you get it as an attorney and attorney so often think that people are successful because of something instead, in spite of it, what their law firm is doing. So just think about the journey to website, if you come to website for the first time, you're generally coming from a problem, whether you're going to Amazon, or you're going to a web, you know, a travel website, it's you want to plan a trip, you don't care who you're planning a trip with is do these verses, do you solve my problem? You know, do you understand my problem? Like I want to plan a trip to, you know, a very lavish trip to the Caribbean? Well, I want to see that you, you understand that right away. And then I want to know, Hey, have you helped someone like me? So that's where those case stories come and no should be front and center and talk about the problem solution. And that's an important way not only to format the videos, but also format, how you present the videos on a website. So a lot of people will put, here's a testimonial from so and so I never use the word testimonial because nine times out of 10 to be like someone so it was great. They got me $500,000 right, or what's that mean to me? So forming how you present those videos important in that order. And then after you've they see that, hey, you've helped someone like me, Well, how do you do it? And so connecting to a process page on your website, and then as you talk about, like the individual practice areas, they should have videos about that how that practice area works, how the process works in a client story on there. So you know, this is how someone journeys through the website. And then on your contact page that you should have more case stories. And your About Us page is the only place I would suggest not only having your story but testimonials and formatting your story once again, like someone wants to, you know, who is this person? Why? Why do they do what they do? So I want to know this at this point, I don't want to know, early on, I want to know it when I get to the About Us page, I don't care about you till I get to the About Us page and having your why, you know, some family pictures. And if you talk about your education, why is that important? To me, one of the best examples I think of is board certified, most attorneys know a Board Certified is 99% of the public has no idea why it matters. So if you're going to see your board certified, what does that mean to me. And you know, and then you can have that testimony on there saying, you know, john is a great attorney, because that's the point where I want to hear a little social proof. So this is how we have to think about how we're formatting videos, I'll be honest, when we started putting videos on websites, we could put videos anywhere and do anything, so it was new, and people click on it, watch it. But now you're battling against cats and babies, you've got to have intent with the videos, you've got to have it in the right place and and integrate it with the website.
Steve Fretzin 16:15
Okay, so I like that that's really helpful because people are looking to structure their websites with video and they need to have that information. So what about the the lawyers that want to take it even further, and they want to build out video on a YouTube channel or they want to build out video as a way of generating more momentum on social media? How do you advise them?
Ian Garlic 16:38
So you know, that's really important, the number one thing to think about is not just your client, and one things we do is called a storyboard blueprint. And we want to think about your customers journey. Because your clients journey at each moment, we decide because of the moments, and they're in this, my moment isn't just when I decided I need to get a divorce, right? There's all these other things that happen around that, you know, from knowing I have a problem to you know, not know how to problem to maybe everyone tries to solve the problem on their own, to now asking for help, then looking for possible help to finding you. And each one of those moments is an opportunity to sit down next to that person and talk to them. So we want to be thinking about this moment. So that's one thing we've mapped out when we work with a client. And I'll give a resource. You know, I'll put our storyboard blueprint map on a page on story cruise Comm. Go circles comm slash frets. And I'll give you that you can go through that you sit there and you think, what does this person need to hear right now? What do they want to hear right now? What's the advice I can give them? Now I always want to start as close to the sale as possible. And I like to move past the sale into your client services first, because a five you know, Joey Coleman, great guy, former attorney wrote, never lose a customer. Again, a 5% increase in client satisfaction can lead to a 25 to 100% increase in profits. So think about all the time you spent talking clients or there's those gaps between you talking to clients, you know, months years, if they're on trial, those videos can help improve client satisfaction, improve improved referrals. So I would go that way first, and then go, the further you get before the sale, the more we get into thought leadership. And if you really know that person's journey, and really speak to them specifically, and really help them and are consistent about and create a lot of videos around it. Your start to build a YouTube presence and your drive more traffic to it. And that's how I was just building up that presence.
Steve Fretzin 18:47
Let me ask you, if somebody is looking to do video, but they really don't have a budget, what are some things that they can do to make that work for them? Maybe in the short term, just just to get into video?
Ian Garlic 19:00
Yeah, I mean, it's definitely be collecting at least some form of client stories. You know, even if it's with your iPhone, I've created courses on it, there's a lot of stuff out there, client stories can definitely you can collect at least a version one of them, you can always redo them, if you start making a ton of money from one, you can always capture that client story again, and have a videographer that knows marketing. build that out. But also, you know, be just you can do zoom videos, people accept that right now. Yeah, that's another way that you can just get, you know, start doing some videos, get comfortable on it. You know, put your iPhone on a camera, get a white, get a green light, get a microphone and put your iPhone on a tripod and start making videos. You can always delete the videos later. That's the best way to get better at it. And it's the best way to improve your presence and best way to get feedback.
Steve Fretzin 19:56
Yeah, that's great. That's great. And again, I think you know, yeah, we're really We're really okay with zoom videos, as long as they think the sound quality is good. If the sound quality is bad, I'm out. Yeah, in a way, like without, with five seconds ago, I figured out sound quality's terrible about. And if other people have a higher tolerance for that than I do, maybe I'm just a bit of a snob. But I think I think you know, I agree with you,
Unknown Speaker 20:19
I don't think I know, I agree with you sound quality. And I didn't know this. And some of my friends told me that, like, there's certain people that have a thing with sound that actually like, it's not, I wouldn't call it disorder, but it's just a thing. That sound effects them differently. And I'm one of those people too. So if the sound is off, there you go in your spare time on lighting and get a little bit better with that. Don't be backlit, though, you know, if you're gonna be backlit, have light on your face, but that's another one. But those are some simple things. And if until you're really really good at it, don't hold your phone in your hand. And jiggle it all around.
Steve Fretzin 20:55
Yeah, get a tripod or
Ian Garlic 20:56
Yeah, get a tripod, a stabilizer, you know, for $1,000 you get goods out of equipment. And I know it might sound like a lot of money to people, but you think about it for years, five, six years, it's a month, you know, it's not the cost of your Starbucks.
Steve Fretzin 21:10
Right? Right. So let's say that somebody is in the market for video, they understand the value, they've listened to what you've had to say, how do they qualify and move forward on a video company or an individual that they're going to get results with? Because I think the problem is there's a lot of people again, that just hang a shingle, they've got a camera, they did this in college, they did this as you know, they got their, you know, their their degree and film, their videography. But they're not really keyed in on on what's going to get results for the lawyer. So what are what are how do people find and qualify and that a good video company or good videographer?
Ian Garlic 21:50
So I mean, the simple way is to go storycruise.com That's why we made this cost, you know, it costs you nothing
Steve Fretzin 21:56
The ultimate layup I just gave you there, yeah.
Ian Garlic 22:00
It's I didn't make this because I, I made it because I saw a massive problem. It there's tons of videography websites out there, there's tons of there's filmmakers that make beautiful films that will make you $0 and will spend a lot of your money and a lot of your time and it's not their fault, and you're just not. You're as you're not taught marketing and running a business. Same thing. If you go to film school, you know, I'm not sure that, you know, Steven Spielberg can make a great attorney film that would make a ton of money. It might be a beautiful, cool thing, you know, half a million dollar budget have aliens.
Steve Fretzin 22:35
Right? Yeah. There's something to be said about that.
Unknown Speaker 22:39
Yeah, it could get attention. But you know, so storycruise.com, in the way I, you know, I bring it back to, you know, if you're a lawyer, you if I called you up and said, Hey, I want you to take in case you want to know a lot about it. So the first thing you want to do is find someone in your industry that has some of your industry experience, someone that has business experience, someone that understands marketing, so you want to be qualifying that. And obviously you want to look at some case studies that they have some case stories that they have. And you might be thinking, Well, you know, my friend here is going to be $500 or $1,000. And you can make me an amazing video, and he went to film school. Well, here's the cost of that real quick. Let's say it takes you two a month to get that video shot. Because of timing, whatever, you don't get everything you need, you need to shoot some more video because they didn't understand that your business sooner two months. Now you go round after round, and you're spending hours looking at hours editing. I hear this all the time. And you make a video that you like, well, if you're not in the market or as an attorney, you don't know what's a great video either. It looks great to you. You put it out there, it does nothing. So six months later, you're you know, we're running through people are leapfrogging because of video marketing right now. It's It's the only way people are game. So I want you to get that mindset. So when you think that way, was one of those business, your marketing, worked with someone like you and has a defined process. Understand when I say marketing, I don't put the same video on Facebook that I put on YouTube, its intent versus attention. I don't put the same one on Instagram stories that I put on LinkedIn, intention versus attention. So we have to have someone that understands those formats, understands your business understands marketing has a process. And if they're not asking about what your business goals are, if they're not asking you about what you've done for marking if they're not asking about campaigns that you're going to run, they're not asking you, you know how many videos because I think everyone should be making 10 to 15 videos, at least. If they're not asking these things. You need to walk away from them. Because they should I mean, we have our planning process is three weeks, because well think about it. I mean any film, most films major motion pictures are two three years of hundreds of people and a commercial 30 second commercial takes six months. So I mean, if someone's not asking these things, and just walk away,
Steve Fretzin 25:06
But I mean, that could be the most valuable, you know, giveaway in this whole interview, not that there weren't plenty of others. But I think that your ability to ask good questions and qualify someone's credentials, how they're going to run things, what their experience and background and strategy is, and if they don't have solid answers for you, and they have experience in this, you may want to consider, you know, not going down that road because it can suck, and I've done this multiple times, it can, it can really, you know, suck your time dry, and it ends up being a lot more money than you think any way. Or you don't pay and you get what you pay for, which is you get no results. And that's not what you're trying to accomplish, either. The other thing I'll just add to this is, you know, lawyers, you know, and I'll include myself, even though I'm not a lawyer, we all have egos, right, and we all want to, you know, see ourselves a certain way. And that's great, except that that's not what the video is about. The video is about the client about the prospective client, and we're making the video about ourselves and what we think is going to resonate when in fact, we need to listen to someone like I and to make sure that, that we that because he understands the prospects and what what's going to generate them and convert them. And so we've got to put our ego, you know, on hold, and we've got to make sure we listened to the Pro.
Ian Garlic 26:20
Yeah, and it's hard for me, because there's a lot of attorneys that come to us, and they see some of these big videos. And there's companies, video companies that make very beautiful, very ego driven videos. And I could do that, but I just like you, I want what's best for my clients. And yes, you have an ego I get it, it's not going to make you money. On the other hand, the client I was with last week, we made videos for them eight years ago, eight years ago, we just reshot their videos this year. And she's been using those same videos, you know, spent a lot of money with us. Yeah. But you know, even if you said $50,000 and use it for eight years, and your average client value is $10,000 you're getting a huge return on investment. And in those videos drove so much business you didn't need to need to do anything. Until now. You know, that's that's the return on investment. And real quick, you know, one of my perfect I used to use a different one. But I think one of the perfect ones right now is the new wonderful movie. has all the elements of being should be a blockbuster, great movie. And it flopped. Because you just didn't have the people that understood the market really doing it.
Steve Fretzin 27:33
Yeah, so absolutely horrible. I was I was on the fence. I don't know maybe half an hour 45 minutes and Is this something I want to commit? It was like it was like over two hours so it's like it's something I really want to keep committing to because it's just terrible. And I feel bad because I think you know the first one was solid
Ian Garlic 27:49
Yep.
Steve Fretzin 27:51
And we can get into get into DC or Marvel whatever you want to battle with man, I'm your guy. I'm a nerd from the from the 80s Exactly. So listen, I am really great to get your insights and and just again share how people get in touch with you with a story cruise etc.
Ian Garlic 28:12
So if you go storycruise.com you know, you can find a videographer, a local videographer that knows marketing, it'll ask we got a big little bot that you just answer a few things, it'll get you in touch with the right person or the right step in your process. If stickers.com slash frets and we have a ton of lawyer resources on there some examples and I'll have our case story process I've got a 10 video case story video course on there, I'll give you access to so those are some resources if you don't have the money take the time to learn this stuff. If you if you don't have the time, you should have money if you don't have either you need to hire Steve.
Steve Fretzin 28:52
Gotta get gotta get the money in the bank. And then you can make these decisions.
Ian Garlic 28:55
Yeah, but you know, and then if you want to connect with me on LinkedIn, go ahead and do it. Just make sure to put intel on the frets and show just because I get a ton of LinkedIn messages and you know, most of us do probably 50% of our spam so I will make sure if you have any questions to answer myself
Steve Fretzin 29:13
And I just want to I just want to compliment you on the he and I and thing because there's a lot of ions out there if you call them me and they lose their minds and you handle that you handle it like a champ. So
Ian Garlic 29:25
Thank you I appreciate that. I bigger things to worry about than that.
Steve Fretzin 29:30
That's it. That's it You're the bigger man on a couple levels. Listen, Hey everybody, I appreciate you being here I in and I appreciate all of you folks listening to this conversation. Hopefully you got some great takeaways and you know the goal is to help you be that lawyer someone who's confident organized in a skilled Rainmaker. Take care everybody be safe.
Narrator 29:55
Thanks for listening to be that lawyer. Life Changing strategies in resource For growing a successful law practice, visit Steve's website fretzin.com for additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today's episode, check out today's show notes.