In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Gyi Tsakalakis discuss:
Key Takeaways:
"I really would focus on trying to stand out and delivering value over the next couple of years, because those are the people that are going to win the day in the future, no matter what the conditions in the landscape are." — Gyi Tsakalakis
Connect with Gyi Tsakalakis:
Website: GyiTsakalakis.com & AttorneySync.com
Email: Gyi@AttorneySync.com
Show: legaltalknetwork.com/podcasts/lunch-hour-legal-marketing/
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/gyitsakalakis
Twitter: twitter.com/gyitsakalakis
Facebook: facebook.com/gyitsakalakis
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: Steve@Fretzin.com
Book: The Ambitious Attorney: Your Guide to Doubling or Even Tripling Your Book of Business and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
Gyi Tsakalakis 0:00
So I really would focus on trying to stand out in delivering value over the next couple of years because at the end of the day, it's the same thing as we've talked about historically with marketing, right? It's positioning. It's demonstrating your expertise. It's offering something of value. Those are the people that are going to win the day in the future, no matter what the conditions in the landscape are.
Narrator 0:22
You're listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach Steve Fretzin will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time, greater results. Now, here's your host, Steve Fretzin!
Steve Fretzin 0:44
Hey, everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. hope everybody's having a great day. I am Steve Fretzin in your host and lots going on, you know, we got books on business development, we've got YouTube channel, if you type in Steve Fretzin, we've got all kinds of fun things that we're doing to help lawyers to grow and develop and build the books of business. You know, it's never too late to start committing yourself to a plan and execution on a plan. So highly recommend that and happy to take calls on to that effect. More importantly, I've got an amazing guest today. He is a legal marketing superstar. He's the host of the podcast, lunch hour legal marketing on the legal talk network. President of attorney sync Gzi Tsakalakis, How you doing,
Gyi Tsakalakis 1:26
Steve, I'm doing great. Happy New Year. Great to be here.
Steve Fretzin 1:29
Now. It's great to have you man. So you know what's been going on with Michigan today. How are they? How are they? How's the school going? How's the alumni world going? I know you Michigan guys like to stay together?
Gyi Tsakalakis 1:40
Yeah. Michigan is a school I think is good. I think their football programs got some question marks but looks like we may see some more hardball though. I heard he's sniffing around the NFL. So TBD on that one.
Steve Fretzin 1:53
Okay. Okay. Well, the very cool stuff. And you know, I never do a good job introducing people. So if you wouldn't mind just given a little more background on your on yourself and what you're up to?
Gyi Tsakalakis 2:02
Sure thing. So my shortish version is that I was a trial lawyer for a blip on the radar started a a digital agency called attorney Singh. And we basically do web consulting for lawyers, websites, search, marketing, paid ads, social email, all the stuff that lawyers can do to be where their clients are looking for them.
Steve Fretzin 2:25
Yeah, that's that's it? And I think, you know, look, all lawyers need to have a digital presence, a website, they need to be found online. Right. I mean, there's there's no doubt about that. But I think it's, it's hard for them to know, sort of who to trust or where to go for the right fit for them. Are there particular types of lawyers that you're looking for that are looking for you? Or how to lawyer sort of judge all the different companies and variables and experts that are in this in this legal marketing space?
Gyi Tsakalakis 2:52
It's such a great question. And the short answer to that is, is define success metrics in advance. So I think too many times lawyers get caught up by these sparkly marketing buzzwords, like awareness and impression share, and you know, click through rates. And instead, they should be focusing on the metrics that matter to their practices. You know, even before the web, you know, things like Target cost per client or opening a certain number of new cases or files per month. But having those conversations early on with anybody that's going to do marketing on your behalf, I think it's really important to be able to avoid any of those misalignments.
Steve Fretzin 3:28
And I think similar to business development, you know, in marketing and legal, I think there's, there's a lot of, you know, sort of distrust, because they've been hit up for so many years by so many different, you know, big corporations to small, you know, people that are just starting out in legal and really don't know what they're doing, but they're kind of faking it till they make it. And, you know, what should lawyers really be focusing on in making that selection of maybe what they need and who they should be working for me kind of answer that, but maybe take a little deeper?
Gyi Tsakalakis 3:54
Here's your thing, you know, ask a lot of questions, your best weapon is going to be an education. And so I think, if you're making the hiring decision, you have to be able to speak the common language, they got to have some of the basics down, you know, Google and all the major platforms put out some good basic information. But beyond that, I think you'll get asked for examples of their work campaigns for lawyers are similarly situated to you ask them about terms of their agreement. You know, I'm always surprised that lawyers have signed some of these multi year marketing agreements without even looking at the terms and I'm like, you're locked in for an agreement with no accountability baked into it. So I would avoid long term commitments, I would look for things like exclusivity, right. So you're not going to work with my competitor down the street. And you know, ask other lawyers that you know, that are having success online, who they're working with and what's worked for them. But ultimately, the more accountability transparency that we can build into the process, more questions we can ask I think that's really the best advice I can give.
Steve Fretzin 4:50
And then one that wrong most true with me outside of asking questions, which is you know, you have to do that is validation. I think that that's the thing that separates It's the you know the wheat from the shaft in this point, because, for example, when I talk to lawyers that want to work with me, I always have them talk with a few lawyers that have been through my programs and that understand what it takes to be successful. Because you know, I'm only as good as my player. And I think you would say the same, like if you have a law firm that's working with you, but they're not going to send you the stuff they need to send you if they're not going to meet with you, and they need to meet you. And it's just going to be a long drawn out painful process. Well, that's no good for you. So I think it works both ways. But I think I think that's, that's a really big deal is, you know, being able to talk with with other lawyers that have had good experiences and making sure that it's a good fit.
Gyi Tsakalakis 5:37
Yeah, absolutely. And then I think you brought up a really good point, there is a set expectations of what the partnership is going to look like what the expectations are, from your end as the lawyer because, as you mentioned, if you don't have clear expectations set, and the consultant or a marketing person, or even just a web developer needs something from you, whether it's an approval or whatever, and you can't give it you're going to become the obstacle in the process. So it's good for everybody have a very clear picture of what that is gonna let that engagements gonna look like over the life of the engagement.
Steve Fretzin 6:08
You know, let me ask you about something else. Part of the problem I see is that I think a lot of law firms or lawyers, they want to like fix something on their website, they want to improve conversions, or they want to, you know, show that they're diverse, or they want to, like accomplish some thing, but they're not really looking at the big picture, how do you help law firms really identify what the big picture is, so they have more of a like a long play versus a quick hit and run on, you know, updating a page or something that's really not going to make make a big, you know, world the difference?
Gyi Tsakalakis 6:38
I know this story? Well, you know, I always try to pull it back to business metrics, right. So at the end of the day, if you don't have a, an objective for a year, or for a quarter, or for a month of what you want to do, from a business standpoint, whether that's growing new revenue, whether that's adding a new office location, whether it's, you know, hiring a new lawyer, or a certain number of new cases that you want a particular type, if you can't have those conversations, all the other stuff is just marketing stuff, right, like updating a page and getting a backlink, or, you know, writing a blog post, that's just the stuff that we're trying to that's an input that we're trying to use to achieve one of those market those business objectives. And so I always try to pull it back to what is your big vision for your practice, we know what kind of budget what is the financial situation of your marketing budget, how much time and money you're going to allocate towards actually growing your practice? If you haven't laid that foundation in advance, then you're gonna end up buying a lot of stuff and not really know where knowing where you're going.
Steve Fretzin 7:39
Yeah, and I think, you know, it's like a lawyer looking at a case. I mean, you have to look at the case as a whole. And then there's lots of pieces that that belong to the case or, you know, it could be, you know, depositions or could be evidence, there could be all these, you know, elements, but it's not, it's not really what's the overarching goal? And then then what are the metrics that lead to it?
Gyi Tsakalakis 7:56
No, that's a great point, too, if you put it in that context, you know, the difference between an outcome that you'd have with a client depends on a lot of factors, right. And it's a similar thing on the web. So if you're brand new, and you come in gangbusters, and you're like, I want to dominate, you know, Chicago for personal injury, for example, guess what, there have been a lot of players that have established themselves over a longer period of time there. And so your outcome of capturing some of that Share of Voice and some of that market share is going to be a little bit more modest than what it would be if you'd been running a campaign for a long time. So I think that's a really good point and contextualizing in terms of good outcomes vary depending on the competitive landscape.
Steve Fretzin 8:33
Yeah, let me ask this mean, what are the kind of the top three challenges that you see law firms having or even lawyers having with their marketing? What are they sort of that like, top three things that they're absolutely missing the boat on?
Gyi Tsakalakis 8:46
Yeah. And so this is a really great question, too. And the funny thing is, is a lot of them don't even have to do with like marketing, per se, but it's delivering great service. So you know, we talk a lot about how you can't SEO your way out of a bad reputation, if you're not delivering great service, you know, if you're not empathetic, if you're not showing gratitude, if you're not following up with clients, if you're not keeping them informed about the process, they're gonna go leave negative reviews, and you can be in that top local pack spot for a competitive search query. But if you're a two out of five stars, they're even if you're in the top spot, they're gonna go to the next one. So I always tell folks, I'm like focus on your intake process. First focus on those experiences, first, focus on all those internal service delivery systems. Because if you don't, and you pour a lot of gasoline on the marketing fire, you're gonna end up having a lot of people that are contacting you that are unhappy because you didn't respond to their email, you didn't follow up, you don't have intake lockdown, and all those other problems that arise.
Steve Fretzin 9:39
Yeah, so it sounds like the biggest misstep is just not taking care of clients the right way and making sure they have an unbelievable experience. And then let's let's assume that that's happened that that that a firm is taking care of their people and everybody's, you know, aboveboard and all that. Then what are the other elements that that a law firm should be looking at doing in 2021 to kind of accelerate, you know, their exposure and how they get sort of business in the door or or build better credibility in the space.
Gyi Tsakalakis 10:08
Sure I got two for you. So this is a novel to 2021. But I think we're gonna see a trend here, lawyers getting more sophisticated about integrated marketing across channels. So a lot of as you mentioned, learners will say things like, I want SEO, or I want someone to manage my Google ads. But the truth is, is that digital marketing that's integrated across channels, so you know, an example would be you run a search ad, and then you have a retargeting campaign. So if someone came to your site, but didn't contact you, you can nurture them as they travel around the web, or you get them on an email kit, nurture campaign, and you can drip emails to them that demonstrate your expertise over time, those integrated approaches work really, really well. And they reduce your cost per acquisition. So instead of spending money on that, one click for that one opportunity to get them to convert, now you're going to be able to build a more longer term relationship and many practice areas, lawyers, it makes sense to learn, they understand they're like, this isn't a one call close type of situation. This is a I got to nurture, I got to build, demonstrate my expertise, I got to build value. And so integrated marketing, I think is one that we're gonna see more of a trend towards, and to is this idea of clusters, that's I stole that term from Seth Godin, he has a blog post about his search clusters, Seth Godin. But the point here that he makes is, is that more and more, even though that we are disconnected. And even though we're not together physically, we're connected online. And we're connected online in ways that we cluster around things of our interest. So you know, if you're a Chicago sports person, you're going to go to Chicago sports Facebook groups in Chicago sports, slack groups in Chicago, sports email list, and Chicago sports, Twitter hashtags. And so identifying those clusters, engaging in those clusters, and connecting with people that have similar interest on those clusters, I think is a really great way to you know, build, nurture and solidify relationships online.
Steve Fretzin 11:54
Yeah, that's really great. And I guess that's a good lead into social media. Because right now, in the last year, I mean, people have been, you know, pros and cons of social media posting on LinkedIn, you know, there's so much content, you know, I'm just gonna get lost. So I don't why bother? But yet, if I don't put anything up, Then am I, you know, am I even playing ball? So what what are your thoughts on on kind of the current current strategy? Is someone an individual lawyer or or a firm should have on social media?
Gyi Tsakalakis 12:22
Yeah it's a great question. I think, you know, the big thing there is, is to make sure that you're focusing on engagement. So a lot of lawyers think, oh, or they're told by their social media experts, you know, post, post, post, post post, but you can get a lot more value out of social media engagement, by commenting on somebody else's post by sharing somebody else's content by participating in conversation on somebody else's thread or in somebody else's group. So look, I think it's good to have some content out there. I mean, I think there's an expectation that people can find information about your firm. So get the basics up there, get some posts up there that have you know, who you are, what you do, why you do it? Why are you uniquely qualified to do it so that people can vet you like that, and make those connections, because that's a big part of this is this idea of social proof, where you go to LinkedIn, and you're considering hiring a lawyer, you want to see if they're mutually connected to other people in your network. So you can say, Oh, hey, I see that you're connected with so and so have you worked with them before? Oh, yeah, they're great. That kind of social proof and that kind of engagement stuff really, really powerful. I would say, don't worry about how much you're posting, or how much time you're spending on it, focus on getting feedback from the audience, because that's their thing to all these platforms, they have tools built into them that tell you whether or not what you're posting is resonating. So are people liking what you're writing? Are they sharing what you're writing? Are they commenting on what you're writing? Those are much better indicators than frequency of posting or impressions or, or even clicks? Really?
Steve Fretzin 13:46
So it's really quality over quantity, if you had to choose one?
Gyi Tsakalakis 13:51
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think about it like this, it's, it's the same type of thing you talk about in more traditional networking settings. If you go to a networking event, if you just show up, you don't talk to anybody that you met, you say, oh, that networking thing doesn't work? Well, social media is much the same way. If you just go to social media and post stuff, and don't talk to anybody, you're having a conversation, not going a lot of value on it, go to a networking event, you meet a lot of new people use, you connect with them over time, you're sending them emails, you invite them out for lunch, same thing with social media, you're gonna get a lot more value out of nurturing those connections. And the great news is, is in the past, you had to go to networking events, you had to either fly somewhere, go in your car or walk down the street. Now you can do it from the comfort of your own home. That's really the efficiency of social media.
Steve Fretzin 14:31
Yeah, so I you know, and I see that I'm posting quite a bit but you know, I'm usually just trying to either offer value through events or articles or podcasts like this, or I'm commenting and trying to give like a my angle on something. So, you know, hey, you know, networking doesn't work for me because of this. And then I'll say, Well, have you tried that? And so I'm trying to engage that way, just as sort of a you know, hey, here's my here's my two cents, it might be helpful, and that seems to get some reaction and likes and comments back. And now I'm engaging in a social way. It's right in the name social media. So I think that sort of that sort of lays it out. But it's, it's something that I think a lot of lawyers are hesitant to do. They just feel like they'll get lost in it. But I think, you know, you have to look at at where you can add value in which, you know, groups are nice or whatever, might make sense.
Gyi Tsakalakis 15:20
Absolutely. And the other thing too, is, if you're not one, your practice and your personality, your style just isn't really one to be having conversations with people online, you want participate in social media, you know, there's also paid social ads. And I think from a this is one area that I think is missed is that from a branding or in Top of Mind awareness standpoint, you know, like, for better and worse, because we could talk about this all day of whether social medias actually good for us, which is probably is not good for our brands. But in any event, the eyeballs are there. And so if you want to be that lawyer, the lawyer that they that someone thinks of, you've got to get into their consideration set. And so a paid Facebook, whether it's a video ad, or whether it's a carousel ad or an image ad, or maybe you just link to it's an ad that link to some content to demonstrate your expertise, those paid ads can get you very targeted exposure. So you can say, Hey, I only want to show this to an audience in Illinois, in the Chicagoland area that has these characteristics. That type of paid social advertising can also be very effective for that Top of Mind awareness. So and the challenge there is a lot of learners conclude, oh, well, I didn't get any clients from that. And it's like, well, how are you measuring that? Right? are you measuring the referrals that that's generated? Are you keeping track of, Hey, I read your post on this, or I saw your that those types of one offs are really, really important to factor in. Because otherwise, what you do is you cut off your nose to spite your face, right? You're like, I didn't get this direct response, like, you know, search, click call client funnel? And then you're like, oh, it must not work. It's like, No, I've, you know, I could be conversations all the time, where people are like, Oh, yeah, I've been following you on such and such for years. And that's not a direct response play. That's a brand building, Top of Mind, nurturing play.
Steve Fretzin 17:01
And I feel like years ago, and I could be the numbers may have changed, or the statistic may have changed. But it used to be that, you know, people would need to see your name, your face your brand, you know, six times, or maybe maybe it's more now to eventually, you know, make some type of connection or make some type of interaction with it. Is that, is that number still sort of accurate in your pointers? Is it? Is it actually higher than that these days?
Gyi Tsakalakis 17:27
Yeah, I think unfortunately, because it's just so saturated, right? You know, we have more lawyers per capita than any country in the world. We've got a bunch of competing places, we even have people outside of legal that are competing for attention for people that are facing legal issues, Legal Zoom, you've got alternative own law firm alternative, I'm blanking on the acronym, but non lawyer own law firms coming. And so if you want to stand out, you want to be remarkable. Again, I don't think it's so much about the volume, or the number of times that you're posting, it's much more about what did you do to stand out? As you mentioned, what value Did you add? How are you nurturing that relationship? How are you keeping people engaged, because, you know, people get feed blindness, right? There's people just scrolling through the feed scrolling through the feed, it's when people stop and actually their comment, or like, or share, or click through to your website. That's the thing that really helps you stand out to be remarkable. And that's the thing that's gonna stick in their mind, not just the number of times you post in a week.
Steve Fretzin 18:23
Yeah, so let's let's move it forward to the future. I mean, what so we're, you know, to 2021? I mean, what is the next five years look like in legal marketing? What are the big changes that you're going to that we're all going to be seeing? And you're probably ahead of the curve on knowing this stuff?
Gyi Tsakalakis 18:37
Well, I think there's gonna be a really interesting thing that's going to happen with wherever the outcomes of some of these antitrust lawsuits against the major platforms are. Because the short version of that is, if we reduce, you know, people are concerned about privacy. So if we reduce the ability to target some of these ads, I think you're we can expect that we're gonna have a lot more waste in our ad campaigns. As one thing, you know, the core of the counterpoint to that is, is that people should, you know, have privacy and be able to opt out. So I think that's going to be a big factor, I think we're gonna see a lot more pressure. You know, remember all these platforms, Google, Facebook, they are publicly held companies, they have shareholders, and so they're going to keep trying to drive share price. And that's going to mean ads, it's gonna be more ads. And so in Google's context, we're already seeing that with the LSA ads, I think we're gonna see more of an impact on those against the traditional organic results, then we're going to see more advertising functionality built out in some other major platforms. I think we're gonna see also legal services, consumers getting better at filtering. And so it used to be if you were the only game in town online was really easy, because people would just come to you, that's what they found. But based on the competition based on I mean, I can't tell you how many new Facebook ads pop up in a legal context every single day. And so again, I think this, this idea of consolidation, people can hide your ads if they don't like them. And so I really would focus on trying to stand out and delivering value over the next couple of years. Because you At the end of the day, it's the same thing, as we've talked about historically, with marketing, right? It's positioning, it's demonstrating your expertise, it's offering something of value. Those are the people that are going to win the day in the future, no matter what the conditions in the landscape are.
Steve Fretzin 20:12
Well, and I think this is a good segue to to talk about marketing and business development and how they interact. Because marketing can, as you're mentioning, can fluctuate and change based on certain conditions and regulations and things that are being decided not by us. And business development might have that same, you know, element to with ardc rules or etc. But those are actually seeming to lighten up more than then than they used to be. And they continue to do that. And so maybe that's, you know, that's where people are going to start to look at, you know, hey, I can't do the same amount of ads, or that their ads aren't getting the same kind of run they used to. So I better focus on networking and some boots on the ground type of of activities.
Gyi Tsakalakis 20:52
Yeah, absolutely. And I would say there's the other one, I think falls in that camp, even though we don't think of it this way, is email. So the buzzword here is CRM, client relationship management, but I would throw in any kind of referral, relationship management, but implementing a tool that helps you regularly stay in contact via email with people in your professional network that prompts you to contact people, even if it's not gonna be an automated thing. I think that's a really, really important piece to the future, because that's essentially that's your professional network database at your fingertips. I'm regularly surprised how many lawyers don't have any kind of CRM solution or client relationship tool in place to manage those relationships?
Steve Fretzin 21:33
Yeah, I interviewed Matt Spiegel with law Maddox and we talked to you know about it. And yeah, it's, it's, it needs to change. And I, as a business development coach, and trainer, I've spent years trying to get people on CRMs. And lawyers are just so averse to it, I've ended up defaulting to an Excel spreadsheet, or things that aren't going to really do everything, even close to what a CRM is going to do. And now the serums are getting even more masterful, where you can not only work your email, but your newsletter, and maybe incorporate social media gathering data on companies and in contacts. And, you know, there's all this technology that's now coming into play, that's going to only help business development. And I think it's unfortunately, we need to we need to get people up to speed on that.
Gyi Tsakalakis 22:14
Yeah, absolutely. I, you know, the story I always tell is even today, and it's gotten better I'd made over the last decade of doing this. But, you know, we would ask, Hey, can you send it over a file and export of all of your open cases? And they can i fax you a yellow pad? Right? That's, that's where a lot of lawyers were. But in fairness, lawyers have come a long way. I think that there, there's a, that's an another thing, I think, with this global pandemic, is, there's been a lot less fundamental change and a lot more acceleration of trends that we were already seeing. And so I think it was, maybe it was the nudge that a lot of folks needed to actually start adopting more of this technology, whether it's video conferencing social media CRM, because a lot of these in person relationship building activities just aren't happening right now.
Steve Fretzin 22:56
Yeah, it's, it's, it's tough out there. And it's not getting easier. And hopefully, technology will help to make it a little easier if people can adopt it. Or if it gets as simple as possible. I mean, it needs to be like something a child or a teenager can use for they, for me, I too, I'm you know, I'm 50 years old, and I still like to write on paper. I mean, I've, you know, I'm not quite there yet. I've tried, you know, writing on an iPad and sending that file over and all that stuff. And I don't know, it's, it's, it's hard for for, especially for the older people like myself to get to get a grip on it.
Gyi Tsakalakis 23:28
Well, I don't think you're giving yourself enough credit. I mean, you got this podcast, you're very active, I think, ahead of the curve.
Steve Fretzin 23:34
Maybe maybe, but I still I still kick myself that I you know, have folders and paper and things that, you know, probably could be all be digitized and done done through the computer. But anyway, I'm like everybody, we're a work in progress. And we have to just kind of, you know, make the changes we can make, I've got an auto scheduler now for all my appointments. And that's been killing it. That's been amazing for..
Gyi Tsakalakis 23:55
Oh, that's huge, and if you can incorporate that into something like a CRM, right, so someone reaches out to contact you auto schedules, and does the follow up, and you've got all that contact, right there. Super, super powerful. I mean, I can tell you even my experience of being a guest today, really, really smooth, right? So scheduled everything got the follow ups had all the information that I needed there. That's the kind of experience we want to be delivering to our clients as lawyers as well, because reducing that friction, giving them better experience, guess what it leads to more referrals, leads online positive reviews, leads to more business.
Steve Fretzin 24:29
Yeah, and I think, you know, everybody needs to sort of figure out their own marketing and business development angles, and what's going to make the most sense for them to be successful, you know, in a given year. And so for me, you know, business development, it's always about low hanging fruit, it doesn't mean that you can't do you know, networking and things like that. But I mean, again, focus on your past and existing clients focus on the strategic partners that have sent you business before and that's where you spend 80% of your time you're going to work a lot less and get a lot more from a marketing perspective, and I know it's it's all over the board, but, you know, the one or two things that, you know, law firms should be focusing on? Is it making specific improvements to their website? Is it is it having social media campaigns? I know it varies. But are there kind of like maybe ones that you're seeing that you're focusing on? Because it's, it's what's hot right now?
Gyi Tsakalakis 25:22
Yeah, I mean, for me, and it's, it's, I think it's hot getting hotter. is Google My Business, Google. It's Google's business listing tool. It's the thing that populates the local map packs when people do legal searches. It's the premier real estate on Google, when someone searches on your name, if you have a profile claim there. It's got reviews, it's got your firm contact information. There's an ability to do posts and Google My Business. So you know, a lot of us in the market, digital marketing world have kind of tongue in cheek joking that Google My Business is your new website. But you know, for a lot of folks, especially if you rely on word of mouth referrals and brand where people are searching on your name, or searching on your firm name, or searching on some catchy jingle that you do in your TV ads, Google My Business is the thing that they're going to find when they go to Google. And so I think investing a lot of the focus there is is really valuable. And I think we'll continue to dominate that that local search and that brand search on Google. In addition to that, what other types of sort of, you know, key things are people looking looking to do in this 2021 to just make sure that they're working at a high level? Yeah, I think that if you can do it, if you can pull it off, if you have the personality for it, you know, get out there and do webinars, do live social, you know, we say these things as consultants, and people say, Oh, it's, you know, it's just not me. And if it's not, don't force it. Sometimes it's a matter of getting some practice. But you know, again, that delivering value through video content, distributing that on various platforms, whether it's Facebook, LinkedIn, putting boosts behind it, so that you're getting making sure that video content is getting in front of the right people being a guest on a podcast, you know, the more that you can get out there, build relationships, make connections online, share your content, deliver value, that's what I'd be going long on.
Steve Fretzin 27:07
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Well, I really appreciate you coming on the show. Anything you'd like to promote or how do people get in touch with you.
Gyi Tsakalakis 27:14
feel free to email me gyi@attorneysync.com that's gyi a attorneys sync calm. Head over to lunch hour legal marketing podcast if you'd like talking legal marketing's we love talking marketing over there. And otherwise I'm waste a lot of time on Twitter. So if you just do at g y i had my name usually pops up at GIS hacker lackeys on Twitter. And yeah, I'm happy to feel the questions. And if you disagree with me, come find me on Twitter.
Steve Fretzin 27:40
Like a good Twitter battle. Yes. Nice. Nice. Well, listen again. I appreciate you coming on and, and sharing your expertise with with my audience. And I know they appreciate it as I do. So thanks again.
Gyi Tsakalakis 27:52
Steve. My pleasure. Great to see you. Take care.
Steve Fretzin 27:54
All right. All right. Hey, everybody. Thanks for spending some time with Gyi today. And hopefully you're one step closer to being that lawyer someone who is competent, organized and a skilled Rainmaker. Take care of be safe and make it rain.
Narrator 28:12
Thanks for listening to be that lawyer. Life Changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve's website Fretzin.com for additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today's episode, check out today's show notes.