In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Gary Johnson discuss:
Key Takeaways:
"Look at LinkedIn like you're at a networking event where you're shaking somebody's hand. It's the same thing." — Gary Johnson
Connect with Gary Johnson:
Website: j2marketingconsultants.com
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/j2marketingconsultants
Twitter: twitter.com/j2consultants
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: Steve@Fretzin.com
Book: The Ambitious Attorney: Your Guide to Doubling or Even Tripling Your Book of Business and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
Gary Johnson 0:00
It really is about a connection. Look at LinkedIn. Like you're at a networking event where you're shaking somebody's hand. It's the same thing. Would you just all sudden go? Oh, Steve, here's what I do. Bah bah, bah, bah, bah. You'd be like, dude, easy, easy. That is such a simple thing to do and yet so effective.
Narrator 0:21
You're listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach Steve Fretzin will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time, greater results. Now, here's your host, Steve Fretzin!
Steve Fretzin 0:44
Hey, everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. A show for attorneys, all about attorneys, for attorneys, with attorneys, whatever the attorneys need we handle. Anyway, just joking around my guest today is Gary Johnson, who runs J2 marketing consultants. There, he transforms the way attorneys build their books of business with the most profitable marketing strategies available on the market today. Does that sound right, Gary?
Gary Johnson 1:08
That sounds about perfect.
Steve Fretzin 1:10
Yeah. Okay.
Gary Johnson 1:11
I couldn't say it better myself.
Steve Fretzin 1:12
Well, all right, then then. But you will. But you are going to because you're now going to elaborate on that and give us a little background?
Gary Johnson 1:19
Sure, sure. So first off, Steve, thanks for having me. Love your stuff. Love your books, if any attorneys out there listening to this, and you have not gotten his books, and you can see the one, the ambitious attorney, so many, you know, there's so much rich ideas that are in there to help out attorneys on an on a day to day basis. And it's practical stuff. It's not like fluffy stuff, which I love. That's one of the things I love about you is that we connect on that level. It's not slimy or sleazy. And when I first started my practice, which was almost six years ago, I saw that there was a big need with attorneys on business development and marketing. They weren't taught that in law school. And I had spent about 20 years on training people on how to build her, you know, books of business, it was in the financial world, but it was easily transferable over mainly because of relationships. And so I've been doing this, you know, like I said, about almost six years, I love working with attorneys. And mainly because they're smart, they're ambitious, they want to go for it. And when they put it into practice, the stuff is, you know, they see great results. And I love doing that. I love seeing that I love seeing an attorney who is powerless, because they can't bring in a business to turn that around and be the powerhouse and Rainmaker within their organization. So it's just great stuff.
Steve Fretzin 2:44
And the The interesting thing is, I think attorneys, you know, really hesitate to do business development, because it's this big, hairy, scary beast out there. And what they don't realize, and what you and I teach is a lot of, you know, ideas that are process driven, it's language, it's process, it's steps, it's not something that they have to go out and wing if they have a proper education. You know, it's like, you know, the first time they run a trial versus the 20th time you just get better. Yeah, after you've done it a few times, and you get rid of the head trash that exists, that this is sales, or this is sleazy, or this is pitching, convincing, when it doesn't have to be.
Gary Johnson 3:18
Yeah, and I love how you say head trash, because in my agreement with all of my clients, it says I am not your therapist. I am you know, I am not and one of the reasons why is because we deal with a lot of that head trash, and they sometimes do the best therapists I've ever had, you know, because we're helping, I'm helping them overcome their limiting beliefs. I can't do this, I can't do this. It's never been done. And it's like, it can be done. And I'll show you and I'll walk with you, you know, hand in hand with you so that you do feel comfortable. It's like a trainer that you're at a gym, of course, you're not going to be lifting maximum amount of weight when you first start. But as you do it more and more and more, it becomes easier and easier. And you get stronger and stronger. Like your analogy of the trial, your first trial is going to be a whole lot different than your 20th. Does that mean that you don't try the first time? No, you do it and you fall down? You make a mistake, you get up, you could do it again. And you do it again. And then I'll send you like, wow, this stuff actually works. Is that is that why that? Is that?
Steve Fretzin 4:17
Is that why they call it a trial?
Gary Johnson 4:19
Yeah, right. Or I'm practicing.
Steve Fretzin 4:23
I'm practicing what am I going to get it right? I don't understand. But I'm so I'm not a lawyer. Right. But But I but I play a play. I play one on TV.
Gary Johnson 4:31
That's right.
Steve Fretzin 4:32
So let's talk about about what we're seeing out there. And I think you and I, you know can collaborate on this quite a bit because we're both dealing with these challenges that attorneys are facing every day in trying to grow a practice and they all have their own reasons why they should or want to grow a practice grow their own book of business, but what are the main challenges that people are coming to you for or that you're having, like initial conversations with attorneys about?
Gary Johnson 4:59
First thing as always, I'm trying to figure it out, stay, and I'm trying to figure this out, I have no idea. You know, I've got this person telling me this thing, this person told me what to do and this person and I don't know, I'm constantly trying to figure it out. One of the big issues is that when you move up in a firm, you go from associate to a senior associate to a junior partner to partner. What happens is, when you switch over from associate to partner, the expectation is that you're going to be bringing in business, but they don't tell you how to, I had a client, or potential client who came to me and said, Hey, so you know, I need your help. Because everybody tells me to go out and just market or not market network, just go out there and network. He goes, and I can't I I've been trying this for four years, and I've never gotten any results from it, zero. And I'm like, Well, of course you aren't, because you're socially awkward. I mean, the guy was really socially awkward. He didn't like hearing. But but at the same time, he appreciated the honesty, because he was he was, you know, banging his head against the wall going, this isn't for me. And when we build strategies that are based off of their strengths, instead of what everybody else is telling them to do, it's liberating for them, because all of a sudden, they get this, this glimmer in their eye that goes, this is possible, I can actually build this is like, and this isn't so bad. And this is actually fun. And then they get into the routine, doing it over and over again. And that's the goal is to get them to figure it out. Because you and I, we've got it figured out. And what we do is we put together these processes and systems together for them that are based off of their strengths and that are based off of their target market. When you put those two together, it becomes a lot easier for them. I think the other challenge that they have right now is what you were talking about before the head trash. There's a lot of head trash out there right now. And there's a lot of confusion, you know, what we're dealing with right now is what's too much marketing? What's not enough marketing? You know, should I solicit people should I not, you know, there's a lot of unknown. And so what most attorneys do, when there's the unknown is nothing is don't do anything.
Steve Fretzin 7:08
That's the easiest thing to do.
Gary Johnson 7:10
Yep. And it doesn't, you know, and they are 100% successful, and getting nothing in and out because you don't do anything, you know, I just made a video the other day that was all about Action. Action, action action you have a plan is great. But if you don't do anything with it, it's only as good as the paper that's written on, do the action. And don't be afraid to make those mistakes.
Steve Fretzin 7:33
Okay, so just to recap, we've got lack of, we've got some head trash, right? I don't know how to do this, or I'm not comfortable doing it, or I don't know how to do it. No one really showed me how they may not have any kind of real plan or direction of where to go to be effective with it. Yep. You know, and again, they haven't learned that there's a process just like with a trial that there's steps to follow? And what are those steps? That's sort of the hidden secret that we can share in our books and articles and in our coaching, but at the end of the day, it's not maybe common knowledge. So there's a there's a gap there.
Gary Johnson 8:05
Yeah. And I think it's, you know, a lot of people go, oh, what's the secret sauce. And I always laugh, I'm like, there's no real secret sauce. The secret sauce is us being able to see an individual or firm and understand what is going to make them successful. Because what you do from marketing is going to be different than somebody else is going to do, which is going to be different than somebody else is going to do. And that confusion comes into play when there are more books written on marketing, than almost any other subject that's out there, which is great on one aspect, because you have a lot of information. But it's also really confusing for people. They're like, I don't know what to do, you know, I should I write, because I think I'm a good writer tonight speaking, there's just too many options for them to, you know, quote unquote, figure it out.
Steve Fretzin 8:54
Well, let's well let's have a little fun. And this will be I think, beneficial to to my audience and lawyers listening is let's play tag, you're it. Okay, gotcha. It's a child's game, but we can handle it. We're adults. And I think we're adults. Sometimes we so what we're going to do is, is you're going to start and we're going to talk about some of the things that we work with our attorney clients on. And we'll just take it to five. So you think about a recent client that dealt with with a particular situation, something that gets into the tangible tactics of things, either a particular piece of language, or an approach or something that you know, like we could say go out there and do it right. Or like you said earlier, you know, go out there and network. That's not it, right? That's not getting anybody across any kind of finish line. So why don't you start and let's let's see if we can take it to five and that'll be a good use of our listeners time. Go for it. Good, accurate.
Gary Johnson 9:42
Got it. Okay, tag. LinkedIn, LinkedIn is a great platform to build new connections is a place where I find a lot of people are really messing things up because they're soliciting business from people they don't even have relationships with yet and so One of the things that I'm working on with one of my newer clients is when you connect with somebody, and you, you really think that there is a connection between the two, like you guys can help each other out, then send them a inmail message through LinkedIn, that has everything to do with them, and has nothing to do with you. So for instance, if I was to connect with you, Steve, I would look into your LinkedIn profile, find something that I connect with you on. That's something that's of interest, maybe it's a charity, volunteer work, where you went to school where you grew up, whatever it may be, and I connect with you on that and leave you with a question. So you know how long you know, Steve, thanks so much for connecting with me on LinkedIn. You know, I see that you're in Chicago. I hope that you're not a bulls fan, because us Laker fans hate you guys, because of that Jordan, number 23 is an awful human being. yada, yada, yada. Yes, I'm kidding. But But what it does is it connects us because it's not about me, it's about you. And it really is about a connection. Look at LinkedIn, like you're at a networking event where you're shaking somebody's hand. It's the same thing. Would you just all sudden go Oh, Steve, here's what I do. Bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, you'd be like, dude, easy, easy. That is such a simple thing to do. And yet so effective. I clients are like, wow, that actually works.
Steve Fretzin 11:23
Yeah. And you're not you're not having to run around networking, you're not having to go in and invest huge amounts of time. It could be 1530 minutes a week sitting at your desk, identifying general counsel's identifying other lawyers that could be good strategic partners, and connecting with them on something that you have in common, or like you said, and now you're off to the races now that could lead to a lunch, socially distant lunch or coffee or, or a zoom meeting. So that's really great. That's really great. That Oh, okay. So another thing, so something that I work on with my clients regularly is strategic business development plans. And although I talk about this in my books and articles and such, I just want to take a moment to run through how easy it is to write a plan. This is not an MBA level plan. This is not rocket science, three, this is this is very simple stuff. Think about what you want to accomplish in a year, what's the objective, I want to hit 100,000, I want to hit 500,000, I want to bring in five new clients. That's all you have to do and throw in a date. Okay, September. One, that's it, you now you have your objective, move it to strategy strategies are the different elements of how you're going to go about accomplishing that goal. So it could be that you want to leverage your existing clients and past clients to get introductions, it could be that you want to develop more strategic partners. It's about networking to meet new people, that could be your resources for you, or speaking, running, then you went through some of those earlier. So once you figure out like what the two or three things are, that you're going to focus on, then you can start writing out tactical, actionable things. And those are also not complicated to write because all you want to do is consider for each strategy, what do you need to do to plan for that strategy, execute for that strategy and follow through on that strategy. So there's, there's a simple platform to write a plan, but that plan is so much better than winging it just going out there and figuring it out on the on the on the fly. That's not really how attorneys really work and think and do best, right. That's not it, they have to have that that's the platform of steps or platform of an outline in front of them so that they know they're going in the right direction. Yeah, anything to add to that?
Gary Johnson 13:37
Yeah, I mean, one of the key things about that, that most people miss on the plan is that first thing that you had talked about, which was setting a goal, it gets the mind completely focused in on that. And I think that that's such a huge element. The other thing is that the attorneys should not be afraid to constantly tweak up their plan throughout the year, they're always afraid, oh, my God, it's got to be perfect, doesn't have to be perfect. Get it 80%. There, you get it. 80% there, you make some tweaks every quarter, and you're good to go. But at least it's giving you that strategy that you were talking about the tactics so that you can have action.
Steve Fretzin 14:16
Well, and then here's the other thing, don't table it, don't write it, don't take the time to write it and spend time on it and think this is a great plan, and then stick it on a shelf. I mean, put it up on your desktop, put it up on your cork board next year, where you're looking at it every day, and then use your calendar as a tool to, to execute on the on the tactical elements of making the calls and emailing people and making lists and then you know, using those lists as is a regular guide. So anyway, I think planning is something that that needs to happen and and just saying, Oh, I'm going to you know, network more this year or I'm going to do x or y or z. That's really not going to be an effective plan for most attorneys.
Gary Johnson 14:53
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Steve Fretzin 14:55
Good tag you read.
Gary Johnson 14:56
Stories, have a set of stories. Ready to go. One of my biggest pet peeves is the statement long story short, which basically just means it's a it's a long story, and it's going to be longer. But please give me permission by saying long story short, because then what happens is you actually lose credibility, there's a lot of depreciating returns, where you're going on and on and on and on. And it's, you know, it's one of those things where the person is just thinking about the top of their head and going, Oh, that Oh, and that and that, and that, and it's just not impactful story should be somewhere between one and two minutes long. You should have a, you know, you like a back in the day, really great beginning, it's got a hook, there's got to be some sort of challenge. And then how did you help that client overcome the challenge?
Steve Fretzin 15:46
Or put it into into into context? The story is for networking, the story is for meeting with a prospective client, what's the Where are we using stories?
Gary Johnson 15:54
Yes.
Steve Fretzin 15:55
All of them?
Gary Johnson 15:55
Yes. And yes, yes. And so it is, it is part of your marketing, it's part of your messaging, that you've got these stories, so that when somebody says, you know, one thing that really worries me is how much attorneys charge, and I'm afraid you're going to screw me, especially on the litigation, because it's so open ended, they need to have a story that says, you know, what, you bring up a great point. Let me let me kind of illuminate it in the story aspect stories are very powerful ways of people remembering you, and remembering what do you do? And more importantly, how did you help that personnel? So there needs to be a point to it. And typically, when I go through this exercise with my clients, when they tell me the story, I read line the crap out of it, because it's usually five or 10 minutes long, and we really get the junk out of it, what I call the junk and get to the to the sweet spot, and then I tell them the story back and then I asked them, when could you use that? like think about the times? Well, when somebody says this, when somebody says this when somebody says this? Yes, absolutely. When they rehearse it, then then they become a great storyteller. Because they're prepared, they're ready for it. And they're like, okay, somebody says this, I tell them the story, and then then people want you to tell more and more stories. It's a very, very powerful way to, you know, again, get people to remember you, which is, you know, what marketing is about? Your at?
Steve Fretzin 17:20
Yeah, yeah, good one. So I would say another thing that I I help my clients with on a pretty regular basis is their ability to be efficient with time. And there's a million things I can share with you about time management, but one that I really want to focus on is the wasted time networking, because now we're in, you know, the COVID. But But whether you're meeting in a group or you're not either way, you know, your time is money. And if you have a good way of qualifying the people that you're meeting with before you meet with them, or while you're meeting with them, it's going to determine how little or how much time you spend with that person in the future. And one of the challenges lawyers have is that they spend too much time with the wrong people. And I'm not saying that people aren't all worthwhile they are, but they're not all created equal, or the same as it relates to how they're going to help you grow your law practice. So you can you can meet with anybody and have lots of friendships and have lots of social arrangements and all that, that's fine. But at the end of the day, there are only certain people that are going to really advance your, your, your business development efforts more than others so that the example or story that I use is, I'm a baseball scout. And in order to be a baseball Scout, I have to a go to the right places where the players are. So if I'm looking to meet CPAs, if I'm looking to meet GCs, if I'm looking to meet Wealth Advisors, I need to figure out where those people are, and where the higher level ones are, right? Because they're the ones that have the bigger clients, the bigger networks, etc. And then what I want to do is put them through once I start meeting those people, put them through what I call talent, I'm looking for talent in a networker. And so I'll give you the acronym for talent. And then, you know, I'll move on, and just we'll leave it at that. But the first thing is, I'm looking to see if there, you know, so it's talent. So it's, it's T is trust, is this person trustworthy, right? If if they make commitments and break commitments, if they promise something and don't execute, then I lose trust, I lose that commitment. And maybe that's someone that I'm not going to be networking with effectively. It's like someone saying, I'm going to show up for practice coach and then just doesn't show up. Yeah, that's not a player you want on your team, right? A his authority is this person in authority. So if I'm dealing with a CPA, and the CPA doesn't know anything about being a CPA, well, that's a problem. I can't refer a knucklehead, right? Or someone that's so new that they are so green, that they not gonna be able to answer the most simple questions. So, so having someone that you can count on as an authority is really, really important. L stands for like, I have a lot of people I've met over the years and they're just some that I just don't flat out like and I like just about everybody so to piss me off You gotta be a real piece of work. Okay. And I have had some meetings where I just I just said within 15 minutes, I want to put someone on the wall. Yeah. And I go, how am I going to refer this person may have the keys to the kingdom, it doesn't matter. How am I going to refer someone that's so unlikable to me? Who loves everybody, my wife will tell you say you love everybody. So if there's someone that I don't like, well, they got a real problem. So so you want to refer people that you like, because that's going to make it fun? It's going to make the relationship harmonious. Okay, so that's the L. The next one is n in network, does the person have a network? If you're dealing with someone, and they don't have a network, they don't know anybody? It's not that you shouldn't network with them. But you have to understand the return on that investment is going to take years potentially, okay. Where if I meet someone who, again, has just a massive network has a huge client list has, you know, like I network with people here in Chicago, that that they work with 1000s of lawyers? Well, if I'm looking to meet lawyers who I'm dealing with the right person, because that's all there. That's who they're interacting with every day. Yep. All right. And then the last one is I called top player and it's, it's basically, I'd rather deal with the person that's been in the business a long time that has the connections that's that's a top player in their company, versus someone who's again, just getting started or it's been sitting behind a desk just cranking out, you know, TPA report, whether it was a TPM reports from office space,
Gary Johnson 21:25
TPS
Steve Fretzin 21:26
TPS or TPN. TPS, you're saying? Yes, I'm saying TPN.
Gary Johnson 21:31
I think it's TPS. Alright, somebody's
Steve Fretzin 21:33
gonna, someone's gonna comment on it. But anyway, great, great, great, fun moving. Anyway, the point is, is that I'm looking for a top player. So when I go out and meet someone in my head, I'm putting them through the talent test to understand is this someone that has a much higher likelihood of being a strong strategic partner referral partner than someone that maybe doesn't fit the bill on that point? Okay. Yeah. So that's just some qualifying things so that I move some people forward, and some people out and even when I move them out, that doesn't mean, you know, I try to move them out of my life unless, of course, I don't like them. But but it's all connect with LinkedIn, I'll include them on my newsletter, I help them any way I can. But from a standpoint of where I'm going to invest my ongoing time, probably not going to be with someone who doesn't talent out. Well. Yep. Till the right tag. final point.
Gary Johnson 22:19
final point, real quick, is we are networking now more and more on zoom? care about it. I mean, this is the platform that we're going to have for a while and get good at it. And I just did a presentation on five ways to how to not suck at zoom. Okay. And, and it's this, you know, you would think that it's practical, like everybody's going to do this, but it's actually caring about your appearance. actually showing up with a full agenda, what do you want to get out of this meeting, preparing for it beforehand, then actually engaging, bringing energy to the conversation? Because all of this is about, you know, we're networking. You know, we're not networking right now. But when you do that, and you meet people, they are doing the talent thing to you, you know, and they're like, okay, is this person trusting? Do I like them? Do they have the authority? Do they have the network, you know, so they're going through those things about you? And, and if you are like the schlepp, that could care less. You just rolled out of bed, you're groggy? Oh, god, this is the worst place that I could ever be. Great. That's fantastic. I'm how to lose somebody very quickly. So when we're doing it, spending that time and being cognizant about it and being present, and saying, Okay, I gotta shut my phone off, I got to shut my computer off. I am here with Steve, Steve and I are right on and we're going because if you don't do that, you're not going to get the most out of your networking online. Because zoom is here it is, you know, and even if you do a call doesn't make a difference. Until we go back. We've got to be cognizant about zoom in and show up because that is a big big thing. Like when I first met you and I saw that 23 behind NGO I was like, ah, right off the bat oh my god we're gonna get a lot this is great. You know, because I so respect Jordan even though I said differently earlier, but I love last dance and and, but I love that aspect. And I'm like, Okay, I think I'm really gonna like this guy. And and turns out, yeah, you're great. And so it's showing up though, and being present and
Steve Fretzin 24:26
it doesn't mean that we can't, you know, appreciate or you know that somebody has a cup of coffee or that a dog barks. But you know, my son to them, I was teaching a class the other day my son came in, in quite free and I 15 people in a class teaching business development, my son comes and I say, Andrew, come here, and I introduced him to everybody and he couldn't have been happier and they couldn't have been happier. That was a very personal moment. But I'm not showing up in my pajamas. And I'm not showing up with my hair all this disheveled. I mean, I'm, I'm doing the right things to show the professionals you know, that I'm working with and I'm also a professional, right and no care. And I can take care of course I do. Yes, I do. Yeah. So I think that's it. Those are some great points. And I think we all need to even though we're having I think, what do they call it like zoom fatigue? we sort of have to get over it. Because like you said, this is this is what we're dealing with. It is a great outlet. I mean, let's appreciate the fact that maybe we don't have to drive 45 minutes to get to a meeting and sit through a two hour meeting and then drive 45 minutes home. I mean, some there's some benefits. I mean,
Gary Johnson 25:24
Yeah, absolutely. It's in fatigue. It's just head trash. That's it, like what we were talking about,
Steve Fretzin 25:29
It's in the same category, right?
Gary Johnson 25:31
Yep.
Steve Fretzin 25:32
Okay. And the reality is that this isn't gonna be forever. We're just you know, it, but it but it will be now a part of how we do things when we want to be efficient. And there's no way there's no way to replace this like this level of efficiency.
Gary Johnson 25:44
A great time management.
Steve Fretzin 25:46
Time management. Exactly. I mean, I had the I was thinking about it. I have nine meetings the other day nine. I can't even ever imagine having nine meetings face to face in a day that does that day doesn't exist for me. Okay, yeah, because I got to drive into the city, I got to have a day, I got to get out of the city, you know, maybe four meetings, tops, maybe five and a good day, but not nine. But I can knock out nine and still have time for dinner? No problem. So Exactly. Let's Let's wrap up with a final point, which is, what are the greatest opportunities for growth for lawyers Now, during the pandemic, and obviously, we don't want to be disgusting, in in obnoxious around, you know, how to take advantage of a situation. I mean, that's not the case. But there's certainly things that are happening now that weren't happening before. What are we suggesting to our lawyer clients, that they should be doing now to really make things happen?
Gary Johnson 26:39
That's a great question. Um, so I mean, the first thing that comes to mind is taking advantage of the technology that we have in front of us. So you know, when we were just talking about zoom, or whether it's LinkedIn, or just a simple call with somebody, I think, now is the opportunity to really dive into that if somebody has not been on LinkedIn, I would highly recommend you getting in there and engaging with people on there, there are more people on LinkedIn than ever before. And not only are there more members, but there are more people that are spending time there. But they're looking for really good information. So the more information that you can put out there, the better off, it's going to be for you. Because then you will be seen as a thought leader. And it goes back to your trusting and liking somebody, when you put that out there like, wow, see, that's great information, holy cow, like, I immediately, like you, and I'm trusting you. And I'm like, oh, okay, this could be really good. But you got to do it, you know, and now is really a great time to get that exposure and being able to build your different relationships, whether it's on LinkedIn, or whether it's on zoom, this is a platform that I think not a lot of people utilize before. And now they need to, because that's what that's the area that we are in, you know, and, you know, there's a lot of messaging that you can also talk about in regards to showing value during this time, so that people can get rid of anxiety, I'll give you an example estate planning attorney, their messaging is, let's take care of your future and what that looks like now, because as soon as you do that, anybody who doesn't have an estate plan, when they do it, they're like, wow, woof, deep, you know, breath of fresh air. Okay, I got this off my shoulders, I can move forward. That's another thing that makes us secure in regards to the situation that we're in right now. But the estate planning attorney needs a message it that way. So that it's not Hey, we come on gimme, gimme, gimme
Steve Fretzin 28:45
Yeah it's dangerous out there. Everybody, you better hurry up and get your estate plan? Probably not right.
Gary Johnson 28:51
There is one thing to scare people. And then there's another, just terrifying people for no reason. scaring people I don't think is a bad thing. Because if you don't tell them what the pitfalls are, and they get and they fall into the pit, they're gonna be like, Why didn't you tell me about this? So we knew need to educate them. But to a certain point, you don't need to be obnoxious.
Steve Fretzin 29:11
I don't know. But again, I think it's like anything. It's not about what you say. It's about how you say it. And so I think it's about the messaging. And if you keep it, fear is fine. I mean, there's reasons to be scared about losing your insurance not having an estate plan. You know, being in a group. I mean, there's all kinds of things that scare us today. And so I think a lot of it can be done in the messaging, on your LinkedIn on your website, or whatever. But I think you're right, I think right now, it's, it's a time to build your brand. It's a time to build your name. And if you're not doing that, I think you're sort of getting left behind. And that's and that's something you should be concerned about as an attorney that everybody's got their name out there, but you're figuring I'll just wait this out, it'll pass Well, it's not you're either moving forward or you're dying. I mean, there's not. There's not a lot of middle ground there.
Gary Johnson 29:56
Now and I love this, this one of my clients gave me this early on in March, he said, when we come out of this, we want to be running, not looking for our shoes. Whoo. I like I love that. Because there's so many people that are waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting. And when this comes out, they're going to be looking for their shoes. And their competition is kicking their butt. They're like zooming by them because they're already you know, 15 miles down the road to the marathon. And where you're like, Oh, God, where am I shoes are somewhere around here. Get into it.
Steve Fretzin 30:32
Now the shoes are under under a bench somewhere in the dog poop denim.
Gary Johnson 30:37
But, but there's a lot of reasons why they are doing that. And one of the biggest ones is fear. That's why it's so important to get somebody like yourself, that is saying, Hey, Steve helped me overcome this fear. I've got this fear. And it's not just what do I need to do? But how do I do it so that I can get rid of that fear and I can be okay with sticking my quote unquote, neck out and going, alright, I'm branding myself, and I am I'm, I'm getting more exposure and I'm being a thought leader, and I'm being vulnerable out there. It's, you know, we can help them overcome those fears. And then they go oh, that really wasn't as bad as I thought it was. No, okay.
Steve Fretzin 31:16
That's usually what it is with every I mean, I there's a there's an acronym for fear. And I don't think it's real but it but it does, it does hit home for some people, right? What is it false evidence appearing real? Real that might be that might be a Tony Robbins thing. I think he may have picked that up. But anyway, the point is, is that it's all it's all that head trash. So we're gonna coming full circle now, Gary, to where we started with the talking about the head trash. So listen, man, this was great. I just, you know, can't thank you enough for spending some time with me. And being on the show and having a little fun with me. Anything you'd like to share a promote with people listening?
Gary Johnson 31:49
I would say the only thing that I would really like to share is do action. I mean, if you're an attorney that's out there that's listening to this, just do just do simple action, move yourself forward. I've got a lot of different videos and post on LinkedIn and YouTube as just resources. But really just just go out there and get it. I mean, just do a little bit of action. It's just taking one step at a time and do it on a regular basis instead of Oh, I did it once. Why didn't that work? You got to get that consistency is such an important element, but just do it.
Steve Fretzin 32:24
And again, I think I think someone has to be in the right either state of mind or or place to hire us. And they've got to be truly committed to wanting to spend, you know, time money energy to work with us. But if that's not the case, the books, the articles, the videos, the podcast, the all the things that are out there, do something right. That's what you're saying is it doesn't have to be all or nothing. You can do that baby steps just to get started or just to go a little further than you currently are. Right?
Gary Johnson 32:51
Yeah.
Steve Fretzin 32:52
Oh, all right, man. Well, listen, it's been great. I really appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. And hey, everybody, I just want to thank you for spending some time with us today. And, you know, hopefully again, this is another opportunity for you to learn something that's beneficial to you growing your practice. And, again, the goal is to be that lawyer someone who's confident organized in a skilled Rainmaker. Take care, be safe, have some fun, take care, bye bye.
Narrator 33:18
Thanks for listening to be that lawyer. Life Changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve's website Fretzin.com for additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today's episode, check out today's show notes.