In this episode, Steve Fretzin, Dr. Jeremy Weisz, and John Corcoran discuss:
Key Takeaways:
"If you do a good job of getting referrals, targeting the right people having great conversations, podcasting can substitute for some of the other things that you're doing and it's more effective." — John Corcoran
Connect with Dr. Jeremy Weisz, John Corcoran, & Rise25:
Website: Rise25.com
YouTube: youtube.com/channel/UCydopT_PnCR7nt83cgbYjLQ & youtube.com/channel/UCw1pssoqLGIZWHlihG2SVRg
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/drweisz & linkedin.com/in/corcoran
Twitter: twitter.com/InspireInsider & twitter.com/JohnCorcoran
Facebook: facebook.com/rise25innercircle
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: Steve@Fretzin.com
Book: The Ambitious Attorney: Your Guide to Doubling or Even Tripling Your Book of Business and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
John Corcoran 0:00
The podcast is a tool that helps you to do those things faster. Because you're delivering value to people. It's not time consuming, it actually is time saving. That's what people don't realize. If you do a good job of getting referrals, targeting the right people having great conversations, it can substitute for some of the other things you're doing and it's more effective.
Narrator 0:24
You're listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, we'll take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here's your host, Steve Fretzin!
Steve Fretzin 0:46
Hey, everybody, Steve fretzin in here be that lawyer, how's it going? Hope you're having a great day. Lots of stuff going on and legal today, especially around business development, marketing, social media, networking, etc. And to make sure that you guys are staying sharp and staying up to date on what's new and hot in the in the in the area. I've got some really fun guest today, and really well educated in the area of podcasting. We've got co founders of rise, 25, Jeremy Weisz and John Corcoran. How are you guys doing today?
Jeremy Weisz 1:16
Awesome. Thanks for having me.
John Corcoran 1:17
Great. Thanks for having us.
Steve Fretzin 1:19
Yeah, awesome. Awesome. So who's gonna start us off and give us the background on rise? 25
John Corcoran 1:25
Oh, Jeremy, start?
Steve Fretzin 1:26
Oh, I was gonna say easy give up right there. Alright, Jeremy hit it.
Jeremy Weisz 1:30
I mean, here's the thing over the past 10 years. So you know, when I, and Steve you'll agree with us, I think, in our lives, and I joke around my wife, everything good goes back to a podcast. Okay, so
Steve Fretzin 1:44
a lot, does
Jeremy Weisz 1:45
you know, besides my wife, but like john and i met because we were in podcasting. I've had, I've gone to people's weddings, I've had amazing business relationships with people because of a podcast. And really what it is, is relationships. And I know you, you teach us with what you do, Steve, which is we've been podcasting for over 10 years, and it's been the best thing I've done for my life in my business. And what are the ways I think of to connecting give to people we think of how do you give to people first without asking anything in return, and it's profiling them and and having people on their platform just like you're doing with us, in which we appreciate and now we owe you everything, the reciprocity, there's like, well, what can we do for Steve, because he had us on this platform. So we've been podcasting forever. And long story short, john and i met because of podcasting, and then decided to throw a entrepreneur event where we had 15 amazing entrepreneurs in the room because we've met so many guests. And then we had an after party, with 40 people where we flew in a mentalist magician, that's a story for another day. But people that were asking us, well, this was awesome. When's your next one? And so it started off actually doing events. And that led to us since we've been podcasting for so long. People just kept asking us, how do I podcasts? How do I podcast? How do I podcast? And so we kept answering questions. And then what we realized is people didn't want to do all the other stuff. They just want to show up and talk. And so that's what we do. We're an easy button for people for their podcasts.
John Corcoran 3:15
Nice, nice. And just to layer into that I would just mentioned that, you know, I started so I'm an attorney, a recovering attorney, I call myself now practice law for many years in Northern California, Silicon Valley, San Francisco. And I got started just I had a good client, it came to me and kind of on a whim, I said, Can I have 20 minutes your time, I'd love to just interview you over the phone, I'm going to record it, publish it to the web. I didn't even know how to do any of those things. But I did it. And at the end of the conversation, it was like that was a lot of fun Can Can you know, can you help me do some more legal stuff, I got a couple other projects. And I was like, sure one that that seemed to work really well. So maybe I'll just keep on doing that. So flash forward. 10 years later, I've continued to do it. Because it's such a tremendous tool for up leveling your network connecting with referral partners, strategic partners. And after a few years of doing it, I was generating enough revenue that I ended up phasing out of that legal practice. But yeah, I mean, for any lawyer listening to this, you know, a podcast is just a tremendous foot in the door. It's a great calling card. It's a great way of leveling your network connecting with the high caliber, high quality clients that you want to work with.
Steve Fretzin 4:19
Well, let me let me add to that. I've only been at podcasting for just over a year. And I can tell you, I have connected with some of the most amazing people I never, ever would have met in my life had I not done the podcast. And the other thing that's come out of it that's been super interesting is I guess I just I just considered anyone that was in my space, a competitor or in my space, someone I needed to avoid. And this is brought me to a whole new realm of inclusion where now I'm becoming friends with all of these diverse people that are in the legal business development, marketing, etc space, and I'm realizing that that they're not competitors at all. We're actually Great advocates for each other. And we're really competing against what we call lawyer apathy. Right, which is, you know, lawyers need to get up and do more things that are going to help them be there in their best interest. And we all provide different ways of sort of handling that. So it's really been eye opening and really amazing experience so far. And I'm just at the beginning.
John Corcoran 5:19
Yeah. And that's how I got started. I mean, I started interviewing other attorneys that were my competitors, in many ways, you know, especially ones that were senior to me, you know, and, you know, I think the chances of someone going to your website considering hiring you as an attorney, and then in, you know, listening to a podcast interview where you interview, a competitor and decided to hire that person instead is so slim, you know, whereas what ended up happening is like, the senior attorneys that I that I interviewed, they were so grateful to me, they would turn clients my way, you know, because they had referrals that came to them all the time that weren't a good fit for them. So then they would start referring them to me, so it was a great source of referral business for me.
Steve Fretzin 5:58
Yeah, yeah. Anything to add on that? Jeremy?
Jeremy Weisz 6:00
No, I just feel like, to your point, everyone has their own niche, right? That what from the outside it looks like a competitor. But really, they're maybe focused, like I just talked to when there may be, there's two web design companies I talked to in the past, you know, today and Friday, one of them serves associations, and one of them serves beverage company. So on the outside, they look like you know, very similar businesses, but they serve different niches. And the same thing, maybe for you. It's like, Oh, they look like a competitor. But they're only serving the pie industry. And someone else is serving the business attorney industry. So everyone is carved out who they like working with most. So yeah,
Steve Fretzin 6:40
Yeah, yeah, I just got off the phone with someone, probably 10 minutes ago, who does exactly what I do, or so we thought until we started talking. And he's like, I'm not really doing any coaching anymore. For individuals, it's all big groups, well, I don't do big groups. So it was like, just as we're talking, things just got easier and easier for us to figure out, you know, we need to we need to start getting each other in the door at different places, and working working together. Because we're really, we're really not competitors
Unknown Speaker 7:06
are complimentary very much.
John Corcoran 7:08
It's great, because you're both probably pursuing the same same type of clientele attorneys or law firms. And you'll come across people all the time that aren't a good fit for you, but they're a good fit for that person, and vice versa. So it's great to collaborate with people like that.
Steve Fretzin 7:22
So let me let me flip the switch here for a second. And so we've got lawyers that are listening right now that are saying all this podcasting, that's, that's a whole other thing I don't want to deal with, like, I don't want to deal with writing because that takes time. I don't want to deal with speaking because that takes time. Like I have no time. So now there's this whole other social media, oh my God, what a time suck. Okay, so now there's this thing called podcasting that they that they may or may not have interest in. So we've talked about a bunch of benefits, but why, like, help a lawyer kind of walk through this? And why would might be a better way to go than some of the other outlets?
John Corcoran 7:56
I love this question. Because I have experienced this myself, right? You know, you're so busy, you got to Bill hours, all that kind of stuff, you don't have time to do it. But here's the thing, you know, you do have to do business development, you're probably going, you know, at least before COVID times, you go into lunches, you go into coffees, you're meeting with people, you're wanting to connect with higher caliber people, you're wanting to get referrals, all those things are of value to you. So you're probably doing things maybe you're attending local events, or a you know, Chamber of Commerce meetings or something like that. The podcast is a tool that helps you to do those things faster, because you're delivering value to people, it's not time consuming, it actually is time saving. That's what people don't realize, if you do a good job of getting referrals, targeting the right people having great conversations, it can substitute for some of the other things you're doing. And it's more effective. Because how many times have you been in a lunch meeting with someone or a coffee with some other lawyer and at the end, you're like, oh, we're business you, you'll refer business to me and nothing ever comes of it. But with the podcast, you're actually delivering tremendous value to someone because you're giving exposure to them, you're giving them publicity, you're promoting them on your, on your social channels, all these things can be handled by someone else that doesn't need to be you who's doing those pieces. And then when you do that, then they they are motivated, they want to repay the favor. And that's what I experienced as an attorney, when I was, you know, interviewing legal clients and small businesses and my community is then it materialized in the form of referrals, and, and client work and all that kind of stuff. So it actually is a huge time saver. It's not a time suck at all. And also these days. The other thing you need to understand is that if you're not creating content, you might as well be dead to the world, right? Because we all know what's Google's world, we're all just living in it right? And you need to be creating content. If you're not creating content, then Google's not gonna find you people are searching for you. They're going out doing that. And so it's the easiest and fastest way to create content that gets uploaded to the web that will help people to find you.
Steve Fretzin 9:48
Right. So Jeremy add on to that.
Jeremy Weisz 9:50
Yeah, you know, see, I joke around with john. If you asked me to write a blog post, I would add 10 years later, I produce about two episodes. A week for the past 10 years, okay? That's what transcription that's like, who knows, like five to 10,000 word blog post twice a week that go across 20 different channels. If you asked me to write a blog post, I would have never started. Now, john was a speech writer in the White House under Bill Clinton, he likes writing, but, but I hate it, I would not do it. So I could show up and talk to someone all day long. And it's distributed across these channels. But I would say with the time thing, I say, one, you're already doing it, or you already should be doing it, meaning you want to be or should be connecting to your best clients and referral partners. Well, if you're not, you probably should be if you are, then you are already, you got already do a podcast, you record it, and just take make sure all the other pieces are off your plate, you know, and you spend time building the relationship and building your business. So I argue as he was like, I don't have time like well, aren't you already are should be talking to your best referral partners and clients?
Steve Fretzin 11:02
Yeah, so it's, it's interesting, the arguments going to be time the arguments gonna be, there's too many podcasts, I would just get lost. There's no, he's gonna listen to it. I don't want to do that. So, you know, I think people just have a mis misunderstanding about how easy it is or how easy it can be, and and what it can really do from a marketing branding content and even prospecting point of view. And maybe that's an area to touch to is to look at it as a prospecting tool. Can you guys touch on that?
John Corcoran 11:31
Yeah. And also, you mentioned, you know, no one's gonna listen to it. I think a lot of people are fearful of that, you know, why are they going to listen to me? First of all, look, I would do a podcast, even if no one was listening. I like people listening. But even if no one was listening, what better thing is there for you to do but to with discipline and with consistency have, you know, 3545 minute conversations on a regular basis, which you're probably doing already, right? In the form of trying to or would before COVID, you're doing it in formal lunch meetings and stuff like that, to do that with high caliber people in your network outside of your network, get referrals, that sort of thing? It's really, it's just such a tremendous tool to be disciplined and do that kind of stuff. And then as far as prospecting goes, Yeah, I mean, it's the thing is, is that you will get introductions to people that you wouldn't otherwise because you're just viewed as a service provider now, right? If you go to your your best clients, or your you know, other lawyers in your community, say, Hey, I could use some more clients this month, do you mind introducing me to your best clients are going to forget it? Like, why would I do that? Why would it put them into a sales conversation, right? Whereas when you lead with the podcast, it's not proceed that way at all. Because you're delivering with value rather than taking from that conversation, right? You want to give people exposure. And so you will get volumes of introductions to people from your existing network and from people that you interview that you wouldn't otherwise that people wouldn't honestly give to you. So it's a tremendous tool. In that sense, you get more high caliber conversations with people.
Jeremy Weisz 12:59
I love Steve, one of my friends of podcasts, because it makes it so easy for me to refer to them. Okay. And like john was saying, example like, for you say, like, oh, who do I know that Steve should be talking to and I can immediately introduce you to them, because you have a podcast, they have a podcast, and you have a way to give to each other. And I remember it after an interview asking this guy who's a really busy VC. Hey, I love more guests like you, who do you think and he sent me a list of 17 people after the interview. Now, if I said like, john, who do you think would be interested in talking to me and maybe doing podcasting? Is he gonna send me a list of 17 really important people? No. But he saw the value that I'm there to give. And so it makes it very easy for people to refer to you.
Steve Fretzin 13:49
Yeah, so the idea that a lawyer, for example, could get introduced to general counsel's CEOs, people in venture capital, etc. And it's not a sales call, it's a conversation, it's it's getting their their expertise on, on, you know, on tape or whatever. So, that's a way to get in the door without it being salesy, which is what every lawyer should want is how do I get a conversation with this high level person that could throw business my way without ever having to say, Hey, can we meet to talk about what I do?
John Corcoran 14:23
Exactly. And, you know, if you do it, right, they will want to know more if they're a good fit, right? So if they have a need, and it won't, you know, it's never 100% of the time, and maybe it's not, then maybe it's later, you know, you you do still need to do the natural things that we do, which is follow up with people find other ways to deliver value to them. It's not like you can just set it and forget it, you interview someone once and then you expect that that's going to lead to just an avalanche of income referrals. But if you continue those relationships, continue, you know, continue them on, it will lead to more good things coming your way. And and so, you know, that's part of the you know, things that you need to focus on after you as you do the podcast is then to continue to take those relationships further. Got it? Got it.
Steve Fretzin 15:07
So let's do a little speed round here on some some questions I have. So number one, so I want to, I want you to each give me your best answer of how podcasts would benefit a lawyer, okay? In these three categories, and we'll we'll just do one at a time. So it's gonna be branding, marketing, separate from branding, and then prospecting for new business. Okay, so you'll each give an answer on each. So let's start off with branding. What's the number one? And if you have a story, or an example, that's even better, but from a branding perspective, a lawyer wants to get his or her name out there. So people know it, it's recognized. How does the podcast benefit that and that from that perspective, Johnny wanna start us off?
Jeremy Weisz 15:51
Sure. You know, I mean, I think the the highest compliment when it comes to branding is when, when people meet you, and they say that you seem just like you do, through your marketing, and through the different channels that people have learned about you online or whatsoever, whatsoever. So, you know, when I meet someone at a conference, who's listened to my podcast, and they say that you sound legit, like you do in the podcast, I consider that a really high compliment. So I view the podcast is just allowing you to take your own personal brand and take it further. And it's a very easy way to do that. Because it's a, you know, it's not hard to do it. And it also combines content generation with up leveling your network, and referral marketing. So, so it's really branding as networking at the same time. And it allows you to take that take that personal brand and expand it across multiple channels, as Jeremy mentioned a second ago.
Steve Fretzin 16:46
Awesome. Thank you, Jeremy.
John Corcoran 16:47
I think you know, Steve branding. There's two, two avenues. I go out with that. But branding. You know, if you look at the, you know, Nike or Gatorade, they have these stars, they get associated with their brand, right? Well, guess what, if you have some of the most notable people in your life, like I just talked to someone earlier from Mississippi, well, he could get he could go have the college football coach on his podcast if you want, right, he could have some really notable figures in that particular region. And you're automatically associated with those people. Right? Like you have Michael jury, if someone's watching the video, Michael Jordan's jersey behind you, like you associate Michael, you know, the Nike brand, you know, associate Michael
Steve Fretzin 17:32
Jordan and Mike and Michael and I are like best friends. So I have
Jeremy Weisz 17:36
personally signed that jersey rightnow.
Steve Fretzin 17:38
Yeah, I personally signed it for him.
Jeremy Weisz 17:42
So I mean, you can immediately be associated with the biggest people, and they don't have to be big people like Michael Jordan. It's like, it could be the local person that's just known in that community, in that particular area. And it's, you know, super simple. Yeah. And the other story is, you know, sometimes we are thinking of the coldest of cold, who can know me that doesn't know me, but there's people who are the biggest advocates of viewers that know you the best and want to spread the word and I was talking to someone the other week, and they were at Target shopping and one of their friends they hadn't seen in forever, bumped into them as like, Oh, I love your podcast, I listened to every episode. They have been taught and talk to that person in a long time. So it's it goes further with the people you do know is, you know, you have a level of brand that that increases
John Corcoran 18:33
I believe I have another example of that actually mentioning Michael Jordan. So I told you before we started recording, we happen to do at LinkedIn live last week where we talked about Michael Jordan well, over the weekend, I just randomly texted a friend of mine who's a venture capitalist, he and I haven't seen him in like six months or so although he lives in my local community. So we might as well live across the country just randomly text him said hey, how you're doing. And he actually said I asked if he's from Chicago area also, he said I actually watched your LinkedIn live last week you had me at Michael Jordan. And you know, it's funny because if we hadn't put that out there he wouldn't have checked it out right and by the way that that content then we repurpose across podcast so we put it on podcast as well but the actual doing of it as Jeremy said that you know people in your network can can consume that information and they're continuing to think of you you're top of mind while you're not having to have multiple different one on one conversations.
Steve Fretzin 19:25
Okay, so that's the branding piece so let's move into marketing and you know, the marketing is for in mind this is my just my take on it that it's it's more about how it's being used to help set up appointments to help get the prospecting going, you know, whether that's part part in brand and part is is just the activity of how that podcast is being used in different ways to get your to get those meetings set up or to stick to get your profile raised. So so let's hit marketing. John, what do you what do you say but what about that the benefits of podcasting for marketing?
John Corcoran 19:59
Yeah, mean, again, I suppose were busy lawyers was what I love about this is that it, it can be a substitute for what you're doing already. It can be integrated what you're doing already. If you're not being disciplined about doing business development, then it is a way to do business development would actually achieves multiple objectives at once. You know, it's so rare in business or practicing law that you can do one activity where 35 minutes, 45 minutes of your day, is actually multiple things at once. It is content marketing, it's referral marketing, it's strategic partnerships. It's prospecting. It's up leveling your network, it's personal professional development, it's all of those things at once. So it makes your time goes so much further. And then as far as a marketing channel goes, while you're doing all those things at once, then it also is repurpose usable across multiple different channels. So you can take that podcast, you can put it on iTunes and Stitcher and Spotify and Pandora on amazon music and all these different channels to like 20 different channels, right? record it once, put it across 20 different channels, take little snippets of it if you'd like put it on on channels like LinkedIn, so that people see it there. So there's just so many different ways in which you can use it and take that that little period of time in your day and take it even further.
Steve Fretzin 21:17
Yeah, so the marketing real quick, Jeremy, before you go that I mean, the marketing that lawyers are concerned about doing this almost solves the problem completely, because they're getting content that's, that's multiply double across a blog, different marketing channels, different places that this content can be put out there in print in audio, video, etc. The other piece of it that I'd like to just add on to what you said, john, is the idea that they can also then take the person that they interviewed so that the person john smith that they interviewed who's a high profile GC, or a whole high profile lawyer or specialist, and they can do that cross marketing where they both put it up on social media, and then it gets blown up between their two networks. And that's a that's a whole other level of sharing content that that really builds a builds that brand and marketing quickly.
John Corcoran 22:10
Yeah, or taking an association like a Bar Association, or maybe you you you are active in like an IP law association or something OCAD or estate planners Association, you can take an association like that, and Jeremy's brilliant about this, do a series focused on that particular Association. And you can go through interviews, some of the top brass the board members, the president of that association, you can even ask them, Hey, who are your top sponsors, or, you know, partner organizations, we can feature them as part of the series too. So it really allows you to deepen your relationship with those organizations, which you already know are really important to your practice.
Steve Fretzin 22:44
Yeah. Jeremy,
Jeremy Weisz 22:46
I think, you know, when you ask that question, I think of two things about the marketing side, which is distribution and the best practices for distribution. And so, you know, we already talked about when you have a podcast, one, it goes across, you know, you have it go across 20 different channels, you know, all the but but the biggest thing is, you want them going back to your website, right? If someone listens on iTunes, and someone listens on Spotify, you get zero, you're there, they could be off to the next podcast, they could be off to the next whatever it is, they're on YouTube video, but you want it living on your website. And when you're distributing it across social media, distribute that hopefully, there's a blog post created out of that episode, that people can go back to your website and figure out you know, learn more about what you do. So the distribution side, yes, you want it going across ever, but you want to point back to your website. And then best practices are more about the thought that I have is how do you give to your network? And so like you said, actually, Steve, best practices, like if you if we post something on LinkedIn about you, and we tagged you, and it's an episode that's on our website, we want to tag you, we want to tag other people that we think are lawyers that should check you out. Right? What are what is, when we do a LinkedIn live with Steve and we posted on there, we want to distribute across our networks, but I think of Okay, who are the lawyers that should know what Steve does, and actually individually tag them in there, and then maybe at least to a conversation that you have with them. So it should be with the goals of the other person in mind. When you are on those platforms, and you know, see if that serves you, you're gonna want to spread it, you're gonna want to share it across your platform, which they're gonna hear about whoever the host is also,
Steve Fretzin 24:40
Let me add one more thing to this because lawyers are, you know, unique group and as you know, john, and the army chose me Oh, so unique. So, but but they're constantly being told the importance of specialization. Well, well, let me just say, here's an opportunity that doesn't exist anywhere else in this sense that how easy would it be if you want to be known for Bitcoin and cryptocurrency and that type of law, for example, for you to have a show that's on that topic, where you interview general counsel's and CEOs and people that are really heavy in that industry. And even though you're not maybe the top expert, you're the one, right by association that's interviewing all these people, and you're a lawyer that handles that kind of work. And you're building that, even though that may not also be all that you do. But that's something that you're doing to build that brand, that specialization that you've always wanted, but never knew how to do it. Right. So we had
Jeremy Weisz 25:40
I'll give you an extreme example, Steve, that's, I love that example. extreme example of that is us. So I ended up going on the path of just interviewing some of the top ecommerce experts on the planet. And so we were asked, and we facilitated a VIP day at a well known ecommerce conference because of a relationship in the e commerce industry, with some of the top 200 of all who sell an e commerce of all of Amazon. And john was like, Jeremy, I don't ecommerce, like, I'm not an expert in this thing. So we were brought in, and we weren't posing as experts. We were facilitating it. But I'm like, john, you're you're a lawyer, recovering lawyer, you're a great facilitator, you don't have to go in with the industry expertise, just go in with the expertise of what we're there to serve them for. But we were able to we were in charge of Ruin these VIP ecommerce people, because of all the interviews we did for our podcast, you know, profiling people in e commerce.
Steve Fretzin 26:40
Yeah. And there's, there's, there's an assumed expertise that goes along with it, even if you're not an expert, but your way around all the people that are, and I'm not saying to fake it, but I'm saying you don't need to know everything to be dangerous. You just have to just know enough to ask questions and have a good conversation.
John Corcoran 26:56
Exactly. And you're expanding your network in that area, and you will learn it. I mean, every lawyer is intelligent, they can they can figure it out. The other thing I want to point out, which we haven't brought out yet is it's really, you know, you've got this great giveaway on your website sales, free selling. And so many lawyers, you know, they just, they didn't get into this practicing law in order to sell they don't want to sell, right, they just want to go on to do their work and be good at it. And what's wonderful about this is, is you don't have to be a master at sales in order to, you know, use this strategy we're talking about in order to get clients. And what's wonderful about it is it's delivering value to people it's giving them exposure. And so that then motivates them to want to help you back and, and you don't need to in fact, actually being super heavy sales is probably going to backfire on you. You don't want to do that when you're doing this. It's it's building relationships in a sincere way.
Steve Fretzin 27:49
Yeah. And that's really what it's all about is how do lawyers build business without ever feeling sales. And I do that all day, that's my job. But it isn't easy. And we have to we have to look at different means and ways of doing things to make sure that it comes across in a way that a lawyer can sleep at night or a lawyer can you know not feel queasy inside. So that's, you know, kind of top line things that we do. The last question, and we've got to wrap up in the next couple minutes here is about prospecting. So all right, so we've hit branding. Okay, we get it, we've hit marketing, it's massive. But then the last piece of this could be a prospecting tool for actually bringing in new clients for bringing in new business. So john, hit us up with with one one point on that. And then we'll go Jeremy, and then we'll kind of wrap up from there.
John Corcoran 28:36
Yeah, I mean, when I started this, I started by just going around my local community looking at interesting businesses that I wanted to work with, and reaching out to the founders or the heads of those businesses, and inviting them onto my podcast. So I interviewed the local independent baseball club, kind of like a triple A farm League, you know, but independent league baseball club was like, this looks interesting, I'll interview them this, this guide founded this club, and so I just invited him I interviewed him. And then there was an organic ice cream company and interviewed them and, you know, just kind of like, went around and and it was prospecting for sure. But it didn't, it didn't feel like it, you know, it didn't feel like going to some, you know, sleazy networking event in the evening getting stuck talking to someone because I had more control over it and, and I could choose who I want to talk to, and I didn't want to and it wasn't random. And really, when you go to some networking events, it's completely random and you can get stuck talking to someone for 30 minutes and by the end of it, you're just drained you'd rather be home with your family. And this is not that at all, you know, so it yes, it is prospecting, but it doesn't feel like it. It feels a lot more sincere than that. And the other thing which Jeremy I'm sure will point out is that there's so many different categories people don't think about which are smart ways to prospect with organ, you know, in the you take any category. Let's take IP as an example. Let's say you are an IP litigator, you could take that and you can go and you can find associations that maybe you belong to already. And you could go deep in your relationship with them. Or you could find a conference for IP attorneys, or for IP General Counsel, General Counsel of, of the types of firms that you want to hire you, they probably have a conference that they attend, well, you could use the podcast in order to establish or deepen a relationship with the organizers of that conference that maybe then gets you invited to then speak at that conference. So that you're going in, and you're not just one attendee of many, but you're actually more of an influencer in that space. So Jeremy, I'll let you hit on that a little bit further.
Jeremy Weisz 30:33
Yeah. I mean, when I think of prospecting, it goes back to see like, how do you deliver the most value possible and not actually expecting things in return. And so if you look at your local community, it kind of is joined with branding, if you're a business attorney, and you want to have the top CEOs? Well, I would look around in my area, just like you did, john, like, who are the some of the businesses I really respect and love that I would love to work with. But outside of that, I just respect and love them, and featuring them and just asking to help and actually offering help with sometimes, you know, for small things here and there. I know, john, you've done this before, where you'll just give some really, really good advice. And when you get a lawyer on the line, and you're getting free advice on a podcast, you know, it's like, it's tremendous value, because people know, wow, like, I wouldn't be paying this person a lot of money. And they're giving me some advice after the episode. So looking around it, it's some of the brands that you respect and love, but you'd also love to work with.
Steve Fretzin 31:32
Yeah, exactly.
John Corcoran 31:33
It's a great point in the prospecting piece, because that happened to me so often as a lawyer where I was interviewing people, and then if you interview the right kind of person, the types of clients you want to work with, immediately when the microphones done, when it's over, they would kind of say, like, hey, do you have a second? I got a legal question. Leaving questions, and I be like, Well, sure.
Unknown Speaker 31:54
As it turns out, that would be fine.
John Corcoran 31:57
I actually blocked off a little time, I'm still available, what do you know? Would you like so yeah, and people don't realize that that's what's what often happens.
Steve Fretzin 32:06
Yeah. Sometimes when I'm interacting with, a lawyer or someone in, yeah, and then I'm giving advice, and they're giving advice, and we're kind of going in this together. And then after we we, you know, click the Record button off, you know, that individual say, yeah, so you're giving some really good advice on how to not be sales in this. And maybe that's something that would work for my firm, or that's something I could use some help with an hour in a business conversation outside of the podcast, but this is what this is sets up an opportunity that just never existed before. So really, really, again, I'm a huge fan. I'm a huge fan of yours. I'm also a huge fan of podcasting. And again, just in the year plus that I've been doing it I've seen kind of a big shift in how I'm being seen as an expert in my industry. Not that I wasn't before, in my opinion, but it's definitely elevated the game. And I think that's what lawyers need to be thinking is how do I elevate the game? How do I get going on something that's going to be you know, different, better, faster, stronger than someone else? And this is a great way to do it. So let me ask you, final thing. Somebody says, Hey, you know what, I want to do podcasting, but I have no clue how to do it. I don't have any support. I'd like to learn everything I can learn so I could do it. How do they get in touch with you too?
Unknown Speaker 33:19
Yeah, you gotta rise25.com you can go to the about page and learn about us, there's a video on the homepage, Steve that we banter like an old married couple so people can watch that video we taught we give away some things of what people can do to get ROI with podcasting. But you can email us on our contact page from on rise25.com
Unknown Speaker 33:41
and I've talked to tons of lawyers about this so anyone who wants to reach out to me again supported Rise25 Media feel free to reach out or through LinkedIn.
Steve Fretzin 33:51
Yeah, and I think it's a great investment of time energy, whatever money to to do and so I definitely would encourage people to to at least check out John and Jeremy and their website Rise25 all the information to on the show notes from this podcast. So hey, John, and Jeremy, thanks so much for being on the show. Keep doing what you're doing you guys are terrific.
John and Jeremy 34:11
My pleasure. Steve
Steve Fretzin 34:13
Awesome Hey, and thanks everybody for spending some time with us today. Learning about podcasting and how it could be a real game changer if you're interested in in you know, really you know, upping your game. I would also like to say that look, you know, this is just another you know, arrow in your quiver to help you be that lawyer someone who's confident organized in a skilled Rainmaker. Take care and be safe, everybody. Bye Bye.
Narrator 34:39
Thanks for listening to be that lawyer. Life Changing strategies and resources for grilling a successful law practice. Visit Steve's website, Fretzin.com for additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today's episode Check out today's show notes.