In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Bill Himmelstein discuss:
Key Takeaways:
"When you can lead with giving it really disarms people. They don’t feel that you’re a salesperson trying to get them to purchase your service or product, but rather, you’re a partner of their’s trying to understand how you can best support the growth of their business." — Bill Himmelstein
Connect with Bill Himmelstein:
Website: tagcommercialbroker.com
Email: Bill@tagcommercialbroker.com
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/williamhimmelstein
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: Steve@Fretzin.com
Book: The Ambitious Attorney: Your Guide to Doubling or Even Tripling Your Book of Business and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
Bill Himmelstein 0:00
When you can lead with giving it really disarms people, it really puts it they don't feel that you're a salesperson trying to get them to purchase your service or product, but rather, you're a partner of theirs trying to understand how you can best support the growth of their business.
Narrator 0:22
You're listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach Steve Fretzin will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here's your host, Steve Fretzin.
Steve Fretzin 0:45
Hey, everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. I'm Steve Fretzin. In as the announcer mentioned, and I'd like to just share that, you know, things are fantastic out there from a standpoint of business development, dealing with lots of lawyers that are having their best years ever. They're starting off the year terrific. And I hope you are too. One of the things I tried to do is provide a lot of content. So obviously this podcast I also have a tremendous amount of articles on my website at Fretzin.com and write for the Chicago daily law bulletin. So keep an eye out for those monthly articles. And lastly, I have three books, a "sales free selling", which is one of my high profile books. It's been a top seller for many years, and really talks about how I hate selling you hate selling we all hate selling we hate being sold to and so there's a better way and that's sales, free selling. That's what I teach my clients. It's about listening, asking, qualifying being very consultative, very nurturing, not about selling, pitching or convincing. So if that's your jam, then get that book on Amazon. Also the attorneys networking Handbook, and lastly, the ambitious attorney. So with all that being said, I have a fantastic guest today. And a good friend of mine, Bill Himmelstein who's the CEO of tenet advisory group and he's a top networker in the Chicagoland area. Bill, How's it going?
Bill Himmelstein 2:03
It's going great, Steve, really good to see you. And I do want to throw out there. I'm partial to the word connector versus networker, because to me, a networker is someone that collects business cards. And a connector is someone that does something with those business cards.
Steve Fretzin 2:18
Ah, I love it, I love it. So we're already getting into the weeds, you didn't waste any time did you? I'm gonna put I'm gonna do, well, I'm gonna put I'm gonna put a sort of like a pin in that. And we're going to come back to that word in a minute, I'd like you to take maybe 30 seconds or a minute and share a little bit more about your background, because you've got quite an amazing background, and you've done some some terrific things in the commercial real estate space. And just as a connector, there you go. So share a little bit about that. And then we'll come back to the connector point.
Bill Himmelstein 2:47
You bet, Steve. So you know, I've been in commercial real estate for over 20 years, I started my own business a little over 12 years ago, mainly because I didn't really see any values or integrity in the industry. And so I started my own firm to really promote simple values, like doing what you say you're going to do, being responsive, and putting your clients best interests first. Those are literally our three core values that we practice that tag, I've completed over a billion dollars worth of commercial real estate transactions over my career, we typically represent folks that are occupying office space, clinical space, or industrial space, and we represent them whether they're leasing space, whether they need to grow contract, whether they're acquiring another company, and we also have companies buy and sell commercial buildings.
Steve Fretzin 3:39
Gotcha, gotcha. And what's going on? You know, I'm not sure exactly when this is going to air based on when we tape but but generally speaking, what's been going on in the last six months with the COVID era, in the real estate space, kind of give your your expert eyes on it.
Bill Himmelstein 3:55
I'm so glad you asked. Because I feel there's been a lot of information going around. That's not put into context. So for example, you know, we have now an 9 million square feet of sublease space on the market, which is the most we've had in our history. Right. And in that context, it sounds like a very dire situation. But then, if you put it in the context of we have 510 million square feet of space in the greater Chicagoland area. So that represents slightly over a 1% increase in vacancy. Not so bad. Yeah, we've got 6 million square feet of developments that have broken ground the last six months and only about 2.2 million square feet of that is pre lease. So having 3.8 million square feet of space that's going to be coming on the market. Sounds pretty intimidating and pretty dire. Until you put it into the context of that really represents about half a percent and vacancy. You know, cranes will say our vacancy rate is up to 12.9%, our highest rate since 2014. Oh my Cash, that sounds terrific. But those of us in the industry look at a rate of 12.5% vacancy have been considered equilibrium where neither the landlord nor the tenant has a clear advantage. So we're really not that far off from an equilibrium point of view. So, you know, rental rate growth has slowed 0.5% year over year. So we're still seeing rental rate growth. Now, I think what's going to change by the time we get to January and beyond is the rental rate growth is going to turn negative. But, you know, for those of you that are looking to get direct space at a 10, 20, 30% discount, is not going to be happening anytime soon. But what you will get is additional concessions, like more free rent, and more tenant improvement dollars, but those rents for the time being, they're they're staying pretty steady.
Steve Fretzin 5:54
Okay, and everybody seems to be, you know, paying their bills, and there's not going to be some major defaults.
Bill Himmelstein 6:00
Landlords are seeing 97% collection rates as it compared to pre COVID levels.
Steve Fretzin 6:07
Okay, so it's pretty solid,
Bill Himmelstein 6:08
It's still very solid. Now that is going to change as these leases come do. A lot of them may not renew, a lot of companies might be renewing at smaller footprints. However, there's also still a lot of companies that are growing and taking more space, you know, Amazon, for example, they've leased over 15 million square feet of space in the Chicagoland area in the last 12 months alone, and bringing vacancy rates in the industrial sector to just under 6%. So it's a really tight market, on the industrial side of things. Office is holding up. And if you're an owner of retail space, we send out our prayers to you.
Steve Fretzin 6:48
Okay, okay. Yeah, it's Yeah, it's tough. It's tough. So let's transition to a topic that I know you're very passionate about. And we already started talking about in the first, you know, 15 seconds of this, of this chat. And that is about being a connector. And again, a networker you defined as someone who basically just like, either passes out cards, or just as kind of glad handing people were a connector is someone that's actually going to take, you know, action and do proper things. What are some of the connector things that you do and that you found to be successful in networking?
Bill Himmelstein 7:22
Yeah, great. Great question, Steve. I think one of the greatest questions that you can ask someone else is, how can I help you? It's not about shoving your product or service down their throats to help them in that way. But just an open ended? How can I help you? And more often than not, the answer is, I need more clients, I need to get in front of more business opportunities, more new business opportunities. And so a lot of times just being able to connect someone to their ideal client, whether it's an actual referral, like they need the services or not, I still think it's a huge benefit just to be able to connect to your potential clients. So you can build the relationship, share how you can be a resource to them. And hopefully, that leads to you becoming a partner, rather than a vendor. I think that you know, you've done a great job of that in your careers really being a partner to both your clients, and you know, your networking partners by serving as a resource, helping them connect to the right people and opening your network. You know, mauriello Steen always says, What good is your network if you don't put it to use? So that's one of the question I like to ask is, what can I do to best support the growth of your business? How can I support you?
Steve Fretzin 8:38
Let me let me add one to that, because I think yours is top shelf. And another one that I asked and it's maybe it's a little looser, meaning I you know, if I'm meeting someone for the first time, and yeah, I'd love to help them. But what if they're a lunatic? What if they're someone that I really can't help? or shouldn't help? There are people out there that may fall into that category? So I would say what should I be listening for in a good referral for you? And what I find is that that takes a little bit of the edge off, because I'm really saying I want to help you, but what should I be listening for, and then it's a little, and again, if you if you someone's already provided a lead for you, or you want to be first in or you just can see this person's a trick. You want to get in there, then then, you know, both are good. I think I think yours is a little more direct than than maybe what I'm using.
Bill Himmelstein 9:24
Sure. And I think at the end of the day, I'm sure you talk about this with your clients and a part a big part of your training is, you know, one of the best ways to get you know to receive is to give lead with the giving and you're right you do need to qualify people because you don't want to be making to this lunatics, as you said, but yeah,
Steve Fretzin 9:45
There's a few out there. It's not not the majority, but there's a a few..
Bill Himmelstein 9:48
Of course, but I think when you can lead with giving it really disarms people, it really puts it they don't feel that you're a salesperson trying to get them to Purchase your service or product, but rather, you're a partner of theirs, trying to understand how you can best support the growth of their business. And it just, the whole conversation takes a whole different light, they bring their guard down, they open up to you. And of course, as you can start to learn what someone's pain points are, or who their ideal clients are, and you have the ability to either deliver somebody that can solve their pain points, or introduce them to someone that can become a potential client of theirs, you've really elevated your status in their mind, they're now going to be thinking about you. And of course, if you do circle back with them to say, Hey, Steve, I noticed you're connected to these five people who would all be great people for me to meet, are you comfortable introducing me, if they know the person, they're going to connect you? And now you've just brought new leads to yourself? So so that's the best advice I can give is lead with giving?
Steve Fretzin 10:58
Yeah, I think that's it. And, and again, you know, your job is a as a connector, is to ask questions, it's to be an active listener, identify what you said, pain points identify, I always try to find out also, who are their best strategic partners, or who they consider referral sources, because, like, for example, I don't have a direct client for you today, Bill, right, someone that needs space and managing partner of a law firm today, right now, that might happen down the road. But I find out that you're getting a lot of your referrals from people that work in the virtual CFO space, or people that work in banking or other areas, and I can connect you with those folks. And that ends up becoming one of your top referral sources. Well, then I still did a great job. It's great deed.
Bill Himmelstein 11:41
100% Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, that's a big part of it is just kind of building your social capital. And, you know, what I call filling the well, you know, when you're, when you're adding to the well, it allows you the opportunity to come back and ask, you know, I never asked for something from someone else, if I haven't given to them. First, if I haven't provided value, whether it's through an introduction or referral, you know, solving a pain point, whatever that might be. But if you can fill that, well, you can then drink from it later. And I've certainly found that to be the case, during a time like a global pandemic, where, you know, a lot of my competitors, and really anybody in in a sales role that relies on any methods other than building relationships. Those folks are struggling right now, they don't have those relationships to fall back on and to circle back to instead, it's cold calling, it's trying to say, hey, do you have a need for my product or service? Because I'm the best at it. Rather, it's it's really connecting on a personal level, and just saying, what, how can I best support you right? Now let's, and then they ask it back, they do the same thing for you. And it really has kind of taken a lot of the pressure off during a time like this, when a lot of my competitors are struggling, we seem to be thriving.
Steve Fretzin 13:08
So it sounds like you know, you've got some some obviously, you've got some serious acumen as a connector. And one of the concerns that I hear attorneys talk about on a regular basis. And there's there's a lot of them, but but the one that I'll bring up to you and see how you kind of respond to it is I just you know, maybe I'm at a point in my career or whatever. I haven't built that that capital up yet. And I don't know what to give people I don't you know, how do I help? How do I get going with this and help others when I don't have that network to draw from?
Bill Himmelstein 13:36
Yeah, and that's a very fair question. I get that a lot as well. If I'm not, at your level, with as deep of a network as you have, how do I get there? And and you got to start somewhere. Right. And for me, it was BMI, Business Network International, one of the most rudimentary networking groups, but the concept is givers gain. That's where I learned the concept. And you start by if you don't have the president, CEOs, managing partners that you can connect people with, you ask him the same question that you asked, you know, that you would pose someone, which is Who are your best referral sources. So you start by instead of introducing them to the direct source of business, you know, the end client, you introduce them to the people that can refer them to the client, you meet those people, through networking groups, the bn eyes, the ACA is the pro visors. That's where you find those people that have clients before you have them.
Steve Fretzin 14:34
And you got to and you got to understand that you get, you know, going out and building a network is is you know, that's the foundation and so joining some networking groups, associations, networking with other lawyers, and if you can't do launch, then do a phone call, do a zoom meeting, build some rapport, figure out what they're looking, you know, who they're looking to meet, and again, lawyers, no lawyers, so you don't have to give don't feel obligated that you have to give Someone a client day one, if you have one, great. And if you know that they're good, and they're qualified, great, but mostly what we're talking about everybody is, is really about about trying to connect people with other connectors, right? Try to find someone. So I'm connecting a banker with an attorney that does banking work, or an attorney that doesn't do banking work, but does something else but could, but the banker has the same type of clients. And those are the things we need to look for is where the common the common client base might be,
Bill Himmelstein 15:30
you know, I talk I'm going to drop a knowledge bomb on your listeners here, I talked about my three keys to finding a good networking partner. Number one, does that person share similar values with me with you? Meaning, you don't want to introduce a jerk someone else? Because that's going to reflect poorly on you? You know, do you guys take care of your clients in similar ways you care about others? So if you've got that, the next most important thing is, do you work with similar clients? Meaning, it's not going to be effective for you to build a relationship with somebody that works with fortune 500. Companies, if you're working with solopreneurs, you can't help each other. But if you're both working with SMBs, good partner. And then the third key, this is a little bit tougher to find out. But does that person serve as a trusted adviser to their clients? Meaning, do they actually have a deep enough relationship where if they were to make an introduction, the other person would respond? So to me, those are the three keys of finding a good networking partner. And, you know, what I've been talking about earlier was something that took me years to do, but I leveled up in the sense that rather than networking with other service providers, in the hopes, they introduced me to their clients, I spent and spent me it took me years to do this. But now I network with business owners, who can be potential clients of mine, in the hopes that they'll introduce me to their clients, which are other business owners, that takes a while to get to the level where you can only spend your time around potential clients. But yes, at the very beginning, you've got to start with other service providers, those service providers need to be working with similar clients as you, they need to be serving as a trusted adviser. And they need to share similar values as you meaning you need to be comfortable putting them in front of the people, you know,
Steve Fretzin 17:17
yeah. And so I think what one thing that I'm taking away from this conversation is that you're trying to level up and the way that I look at it is a little bit like and I if you can, if you can visualize this, a pyramid, and at the bottom of the pyramid, where the most spaces right at the base, that's where cold calling and maybe some baseline networking, joining some associations maybe comes in, if you take a step up from there, if you've developed the network, right, then you can move into strategic partners and people that can refer you directly because you share those similar values and clients. The step up from there, you know, might be your friends and family and maybe, you know, clients, you know, that refer you and can provide the highest level and the easiest kind of roadmap to get to additional business. So it's all about levels. I feel like I'm at Seinfeld's all about levels, Jerry. But it's it is it is you have to start at the bottom if you're not at the top, and it takes time to grow out of network, to build out clients, and then to be able to leverage those clients. And so that's where attorneys need to be or we all need to be, is if we can get our business primarily from networking with our clients who love us and know, we, you know, we take care of them, that's going to be a different level that everyone should aspire to. Is that what you found?
Bill Himmelstein 18:36
Oh, you're spot on? Absolutely, Steve. And I mean, you got to start somewhere. And you can't just start by meeting CEO after CEO. I mean, I've put in two decades of work. And now, you know, pre COVID, I was meeting eight to 10, CEOs and owners every week. That's, that's phenomenal. But it took two decades to get there. At the beginning, I was going to lots of networking meetings and joining lots of networking groups and meeting top service providers, because it's those top service providers, like the attorneys that you know, they have clients and once they get comfortable with you and realize that you're an expert in your field, and that you are going to treat your clients the same way that they do. Then they start opening their Rolodex and making those connections. And then once you get clients, you're able to, you know, introduce those folks to others. All right,
Steve Fretzin 19:26
you ready for a curveball?
Bill Himmelstein 19:27
Bring it.
Steve Fretzin 19:28
Alright, here we go. You mentioned things that you use as qualifiers for potential strategic partners, right people that that are going to be your your best referral sources value, they have the same values, similar clients, and they're a trusted advisor. What do you do with the people that have none of those when you're meeting someone, they seem nice enough, but they're not they're not a trusted adviser. They're they don't have similar clients. You don't want to be rude and you don't want to dismiss them, but at the same time, you know that the path to a really Strong, valuable relationship is probably limited. What do you do with those people?
Bill Himmelstein 20:05
Yeah, that's a really wonderful question. I mean, you obviously never want to burn any bridges, because you just don't know, maybe that person you're talking to in the next week or so has a client that says, hey, we're looking to move, we need 10,000 feet of office space, you know, any brokers. So, you know, if you're at an event, and you're talking with them, you a great way to say is, Oh, I just saw a friend of mine, I'd like to go over and say, Hello, it's been a pleasure speaking with you. But in terms of, you know, you don't necessarily get rid of anybody, in my opinion, unless they're that those insane people. But you know, I think in general, if someone's not going to be, in your opinion, a great resource for you or your clients, then you put them on your mailing list, you get them into your social media, and you hope that your LinkedIn posts and your newsletter finds their eyeballs and you stay in their mind. But that that's really what the answer is, is you got to move on. You do it politely. But hopefully, you're you can stay across their feet, you know, in your with your newsletter with your social media. But I wouldn't spend a lot of time with with those folks.
Steve Fretzin 21:20
Yeah, I think you're spot on. Because, again, you know, I think one thing that we all have to be really careful about is our time. And the reality is that, you know, to meet with everybody for an hour, might sound great at the beginning. But when you start getting business and you start getting busy and your billing hours, you know, meeting with everybody isn't so attractive anymore. And so I think we have to have a way of and I love that you said level up now it's in my head, I can't like it's like a, like an ear worm. And so you're either moving people up, or you're moving them maybe not out but over. And there's ways to keep in touch with them through social media and through newsletters to your point. But maybe they're not moving forward. The easiest way that I think about this, and maybe you can add some some some additional context to it is a little bit like a baseball Scout, right? We're out, you know, hopefully we're in the right places, and we're not at some playground in Philadelphia, you know, we're in the into college level, or we're we're at the right places where the good players are that sort of number one. But then how do we bring people up? I think we have to, like qualify them, bring them up slowly. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Sometimes people talk a big game, and sometimes there's just a lot of talk. So do you see that as far as like almost being like a recruiter of talent?
Right, a recruiter of networking partners? Absolutely. 100%, I think one of the ways that we're able to qualify people is on LinkedIn. Certainly, if you have Sales Navigator, there's a real easy way to search someone's connections through a set of criteria, like their title, their size of business, their location, all sorts of different things, you can narrow down essentially to find, does this person know your ideal client? Do they have that person in your network? Because if not, I mean, there's been some people I've chased down thinking that they were going to be a great resource for me and, and have a lot of connections to the type of people I'm trying to meet. Only to find out later, that that's not the case. You know, I'm thinking of this one story where I had an attorney, a managing partner of a law firm that I referred 18 opportunities to over a three year period. And then it was at that point, that I sat down with him and said, Hey, listen, you know, I've, I feel like, I've been a great giver to you, I've been a great resource, I've added value. You know, I'm happy to continue referring you new clients. I just need an assurance that I'm your go to broker when your lease comes due? And he said, Oh, no, gosh, no, we have a broker. We can't switch. We're not switching. I said, Okay, cool. That's fine. I'd like to meet your clients. And, you know, I'd like to get in front of your clients. And his response was, you know, when I hear of one of my clients that needs a broker, I'll let you know. That was five years ago, I haven't heard from him since, you know, so that's one thing is qualifying who you're meeting, and and really being clear upfront what your intentions are, you know, my goal here is to build a mutually beneficial networking relationship with you, where we each connect each other to our ideal clients. You know, and you can find out right away and you're right, you might have some talkers that say of course, yeah, you know, this guy was known as a really well networked attorney. But that's why I mentioned earlier, be having a good network and being a connector are two very different things. You know, using that network, for the benefit of others, is one thing. And so what I learned from that experience was just be more open and honest about your intentions and rather than giving away the entire farm before, hoping that you get something in return, just give away a couple chickens. Now a couple pigs Here, eat this for a little bit. I hope it's good. And then I'm going to come back and say, Hey, do you have any chickens for me? Do you have any pigs for me?
So I mean, let me let me summarize this back to my my analogy, which is you took somebody who you saw great potential in you, this is a, an 18 year old baseball player down in Dominican and immediately put him on the starting lineup of the Cubs of the Sox in Chicago here, right, and thinking that this person was going to hit, you know, 350 and be an amazing player, and wasn't right. So you took it so fast that that you, you know, kind of blew through a lot of opportunities there. So what I blinders on? Well, right, right. And that happens to all of us, I think those those things have to happen for us to come back down to earth and say, You know what, maybe I need to qualify this person by giving them something to do, and seeing if they respond to it, right. So I'm giving you a contact, I'm now coaching you through who I'm looking for you agree to make an introduction, and you totally blow me off, you totally miss it, you and Okay, so now I come back to check in and, and now you're not responding to my emails? Well, in a very short amount of time, we've we've sort of figured out that this person needs to stay in the Dominican and, and continue to play on the local fields. And that's a really important time management tool, for connectors are to be connectors, that you need to qualify early and qualify often, and do it in a very soft nurturing way, and certainly coach them and help them along. But if they can't function at any kind of real level, then that's not going to be someone that's going to function down the road, if they can't function today, they're not gonna be any better in a year, in most cases.
Bill Himmelstein 26:49
You're spot on, Steve, I mean, and really, it is, that's part of that networking game is you want to find people that are going to be productive for you. That's really it's, it's this is capitalism work. It's not the our method is not 100%. altruistic, it is we are leading and giving. So at the very least, we're going to leave everybody with a positive experience with us and a good taste in their mouth about who we are, and what we represent. But to the same point, it's got to be beneficial for you as well. And I love what you said about, you know, being quick about it. Hey, here's a couple of good people for you to meet. You know, do you have anyone in your network are usually we're very proactive. We say How well do you know these five people we found in your LinkedIn network? And they usually will tell me odd. I don't know these two very well. But these other three I do. I say, Great. Let's make some connections for each other. I sent you some names of some folks that I think would be good for you. You agreed? Let's open some doors for each other.
Steve Fretzin 27:54
Yeah, I think that's it. And with that, I think we're going to wrap up. I mean, look, if somebody's listening to this, and they haven't taken away three for good ideas, then they're not listening. You know, you're you're just you're just awesome. And is there anything so a lawyer out there saying, hey, I want to connect with this guy, Bill. I mean, he's not only an expert in his field in commercial real estate, but also someone that, you know, would be a great networker for me to, you know, for me to, you know, get get on board with, how do they get in touch with you?
Bill Himmelstein 28:21
Yeah, and thanks again for having me on the show. This was a wonderful opportunity. My email address is Bill@tagcommercialbroker.com. And our website is www.tagcommercialbroker.com.
Steve Fretzin 28:36
Yeah, and tag again stands for..
Bill Himmelstein 28:39
Tenant advisory group.
Steve Fretzin 28:40
Awesome. Awesome. Hey, man, I appreciate you. And I appreciate you being on the show and sharing all your knowledge about this networking you you've been doing it a long time, and I know that there's a lot of value that you bring to the table.
Bill Himmelstein 28:51
Thank you, Steve. I appreciate it.
Steve Fretzin 28:53
Yeah. Hey, everybody. Thanks for tuning in and checking us out today. And again, the goal is to help you you all become that attorney, someone that is confident organized in a skilled Rainmaker. Stay safe and be well.
Narrator 29:10
Thanks for listening to be that lawyer. Life Changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve's website Fretzin.com. For additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today's episode, check out today's show notes.