In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Allison Williams discuss:
Key Takeaways:
"You really have to be thinking, at all times, who is the least paid, most qualified person to do this task. And if there's anyone other than you, you need to be looking to press the work as far down as possible, so that the higher-level work can be done by the lawyer, and ultimately make the most money in the most profit off of every activity in the business." — Allison Williams
Connect with Allison Williams:
Facebook: facebook.com/LawFirmMentor
Website: lawfirmmentor.net
Show: Crushing Chaos - lawfirmmentor.net/podcast
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/allisoncwilliams
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: Steve@Fretzin.com
Book: The Ambitious Attorney: Your Guide to Doubling or Even Tripling Your Book of Business and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
Allison Williams 0:00
So you really have to be thinking at all times who is the least paid most qualified person to do this task and if there's anyone other than you, you need to be looking to press the work as far down as possible, so that the higher level higher order work can be done by the lawyer and ultimately make the most money and the most profit off of every activity in the business.
Narrator 0:24
You're listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach Steve Fretzin. We'll take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here's your host, Steve Fretzin!
Steve Fretzin 0:46
Hey, everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. I am your enthusiastic host, Steve Frederickson. And I hope everybody's having a great day. And if you're a lawyer, you're continuing to look at building your practice and becoming that lawyer someone who is confident organized and a skilled Rainmaker to help you with that I try to bring on the best guests in the industry and the legal profession. And today is no different. I have Allison Williams, the law firm mentor, Allison, how are you today?
Allison Williams 1:13
I am doing well, Steve, I am so excited to talk to you and to dig into one of my favorite topics today. So let's get going.
Steve Fretzin 1:21
Let's get going. And I would love to hear you give a little bit more about your background. And what makes you the law firm mentor?
Allison Williams 1:29
Sure. So I tell people that law firm mentor is a business coaching service for solo and small law firm attorneys. And we help them to grow their revenues, crush chaos and business and make more money. But really the principles that I talked about here in law firm mentor are applicable whether you are an associated firm, your partner you're eating what you kill is a series of lawyers or you are a solopreneur. So my story is an essence that I have always been a lawyers lawyer, I started off loitering, I went to a variety of different firms really built myself up in the practice, by learning how to build a book of business had about a $500,000 book of business, when I decided to export that and start my own law firm, and very quickly realized that there's a lot more to the business of law than just being a good lawyer. So I was exhausted, I was working round the clock 24 hours a day, seven days a week just and I just could not get my threshold. And I kept trying to work harder to get there. And that just did not work. And at some point I fell asleep driving home, I woke up a quarter centimeter away from a guardrail. And that was my aha moment that I had to do something dramatically different because there were just no more hours to cram into a day. So I started working with business coaches very quickly learned the systematizing process, and was able to create a multi million dollar enterprise in three and a half years. And now I help lawyers to do the same thing to crush the chaos in their business and to make more money.
Steve Fretzin 2:53
Yeah, that's terrific. And again, this is an industry that needs the kind of support that you and I provide, because it isn't taught in law school, it's not taught they're not they're not going to business school. And if even if they did, business school doesn't always give them the Hard Knocks that you and I know from building our own businesses and working with other people. So how does one identify the chaos that's most important to address? You know, in their business?
Allison Williams 3:17
Yeah. So you know, there's there's four principal areas that I like to talk to lawyers about. So if you need more money in your business, you need marketing or sales expertise. And if you need more time in your business, you need people running systems. And so you have to really think about where you are experiencing the greatest residual problem and any of those areas. So you could have a marketing problem. In essence, you could have not enough leads coming through the door and not enough people to sell to lawyers rarely are going to identify that they have a sales problem, because typically, we are getting cases that are personally referred if we're not really in the mindset of being a business owner. So you could have a sales problem depending on how you're running your business. But that really means that you're not converting the people that come in, they come in, they like you, they trust you. They have a great conversation. And then they say let me think about it. You let them walk out the door and you never see him again. You could have a people problem. And I think most of us identify that right? Where you've got team members that appear to be smart, they appear to be dedicated, but they have to ask you 5000 questions all day? They are always, you know, kind of asking for that, hey, do you have a minute Do you have a minute Do you have a minute and they're really looking for satiation, or kind of that dopamine hit that comes from knowing that they're not going to get in trouble by doing things wrong, and that usually means you aren't managing or leading your people effectively. And then the final area is systems which is basically that your law firm is systematized to the point where it runs without you. So you should be able to go on vacation without having to check in. You should be able to take extended time out of your office without someone needing something to happen that only requires you. So if you are the critical bottleneck in the business, the business is not truly a business. What you really have is just a job. That has your name on it.
Steve Fretzin 5:02
Yeah I think that's really important. And it's you know, it's interesting because as a, you know, business development coach for lawyers, it's great that I help them double triple their books of business, I help them become more efficient with how they do and, but then it becomes Alright, so now I have a lot more work coming in, how do I balance all of that? Because my associates, just Okay, my assistant, you know, just left in, you know, maternity leave or whatever. And so they get put in these situations where, you know, they're, it's almost like, you know, they're they're getting punished for their good behavior of going out and getting business. So how do you work with them on efficiency, specifically, because I think that's something that I'd like to dive into. Yeah.
Allison Williams 5:42
So you know, efficiency is something that drives the whole idea of systematizing. Right, everything should be running without you're having to put independent thought into every activity that you do. So that the vast majority of your thought is going to the lawyer ring, the service that you deliver, rather than the How to the process the wraparound. So we start with a very basic understanding of what needs to be done. And then you have to figure out a system for delegating. And this is probably where I see lawyers have the most difficulty, which is, they don't want to let something go because they believe they have to be the one to do it, there's no one better or I'm the best one in the building. So I'll just do it myself. And the problem with that line of thinking is that there are a lot of things that have to get done. And even if you are the best one to do it, if you're doing everything, you're not your best for the things that only you can do. So you really have to be thinking at all times, who is the least paid most qualified person to do this task. And if there's anyone other than you, you need to be looking to press the work as far down as possible, so that the higher level higher order work can be done by the lawyer and ultimately make the most money and the most profit off of every activity in the business.
Steve Fretzin 6:51
Yeah, I think i think that's that's a great point. And I think delegation is something that needs to be addressed at a higher level, because you know, that lawyers that think you know that the client only wants them to work on the file or, or that only they can handle it, and then they end up getting into a pickle because they just can't, they just can't manage all that work and stay on the business development or heaven forbid, they're the managing partner on an executive team where they now have administrative duties. So these are the things that lawyers are juggling, and it just doesn't work. So how does a lawyer who's trying to push things down? Get through that when maybe it's just it's just, it's in their head that they can't or they don't have the right people in place?
Allison Williams 7:33
Yeah, well, so there's a few ways of dealing with it, you know, not having the right people is a separate issue. But let's assume that you have for starters, you know, a competent staff and you're just kind of struggling with how do I get it off my plate? What am I doing when the client really wants me? Well, the way you have to think about this is that this is a culture issue, you have to imbue your responsibilities into your team, and they have to believe that they have things that are their job to do. And there are things that are your job to do. So it really helps to instead of taking what's on your plate and then divvying it up when you get a chance to because we all know lawyers are gonna say I just didn't have a chance to I was too busy. I didn't get around to it. So I'll just do it myself. Instead of doing that create workflows from the beginning of a file. So every single itemized activity in the file gets written down and documented. And then the paralegal or the legal assistant, or the associate or whomever else is working on the file, you then have a responsibilities list so that from the start of the file all the way to the end of the file, each person knows when it is their turn to pick up the file and work it, they're not looking to come take work away from you. They simply have a defined responsibility. When you do it that way, you don't have to then figure out or have that that feeling of loss or frustration or fear that every time you give something away, it's going to be a headache. The second thing to manage is the communications. So you have to speak in the weeds when you were talking to your clients at all times, right? The client is not hiring john doe, the lawyer, the client is hiring the firm of john doe, which means you get john doe, you get Jane Smith, the associate you get Susie Joe, the paralegal, you get john Jacobs, the, you know, the legal assistant. And we all have defined responsibilities. If you tell your clients from the beginning, this is who is doing what, and they expect to hear from those people, then when they reach out to you or they reach out to your associate with something that really is a staff issue. They can be redirected without a sense of, I'm pushing my client off or the client feels like I don't want to be bothered with them. They're just reminded, this is the protocol that we've created to keep your bill reasonable to save the amount of time that's necessary to get the work done, to get the work done at the highest level of quality, and frankly, to preserve the resource of what you're paying for, which is the legal expertise that the lawyer is going to provide you.
Steve Fretzin 9:54
Yeah, and this is slice I struggled through the movie marriage story. I waited till my wife was out of town or something, and then I watched it. And for those of you who haven't seen it, it's it's about a divorce and Holly, you know, in with with, you know, actors and theatre people. And there's one scene in particular where, and I hopefully I'm not, this might be a spoiler alert, but this high powered lawyer in LA says, Look, if you if you have a really smart and I'm paraphrasing, if you have a really smart question, you're going to want to talk to me, it's 850 an hour, if you have a really stupid question, you're going to want to talk to him at 450 an hour. And now that's the setting up of the team for that, for that family matter. And obviously, that's the wrong way to do it. But that's, you know, that's what made the movie interesting. But what you're talking about Alison is really considering how you're going to improve the culture to bring in the team explain the team right from the get go. So that it isn't all on the one lawyer shoulders that it's looked at as a we. And that's so critical. And I think there's so many attorneys that aren't doing that effectively, that it's, it's a huge misstep and how they balance their career.
Allison Williams 10:58
Yeah, definitely. And, you know, one of the things that is also very empowering, and this is something that lawyers can really benefit from is the fact that when you give someone grunt work to do, right, when you take work and dump it on their plate, and they are a servant of you, they don't take ownership of that. That's the reason why 70% of the American workforce is disengaged at work. Because when you are simply told what to do, and you are doing what you were told to do, you don't have any creative process there, you don't have any ownership of it, you're not really invested. It's just something to do to get your paycheck, you clock in, get your work done, get your check and go home, versus when you are giving people a certain level of autonomy, a certain level of authority, and you're saying I trust this person to do these certain activities, and you define their job responsibility as one staying, you know, staying true to code write staying on your mission values, etc. But to and this is my personal favorite, getting as much crap off of the owner as possible, your job is to make my life easier, then they're looking for ways to do more. And when they start looking for ways to do more than when clients come through the door, clients feel that energy that comes from the staff person who says, it's my job to do as much as possible to make your experience better. Let's see how we can do that. Let me escort you to our waiting room, then the next person, I see you're in my waiting room, let us make sure that you have the greatest experience possible. Let me get you something to drink, then the next person, I see you've had something to drink, let me remove that for you and get you over to our intake specialist so that you can have a conversation. And every person is on the team of customer service. And so the clients experience is any person that I speak to is going to give me a good experience. So I don't necessarily need to go spend 5, 6, 7, $800 an hour, I can get some services without costs, and I can get some services at a low cost the paralegal or even the associate and still get a great experience and still get my needs met.
Steve Fretzin 12:49
Yeah. And how has things changed in the in the COVID world? Because you're talking about people coming into an office now that that's not the case? How are people transitioning to that experience being sort of through zoom?
Allison Williams 13:00
Yeah, well, you know, zoom is it's interesting, people talk about this, and I talked about it on my own podcast, and I've certainly had people on our Facebook Live Show talking about it, you know, COVID has created a lot of industry change and cataclysmic change. But the reality is, it's a pivot that I think was already in place before. Before COVID happened, you know, we have been doing more with technology, we've been using alternative forms of communication. And frankly, I think this is the exact disruption that we needed to bring the public on board with the fact that you don't need to see a person in the office to have a meaningful conversation with them, like everything doesn't require a two hour in office meeting. So now you have that same level, if you are creating a systematized firm, you're going to still have your coded responsibilities for every role, people are going to own their territory. And within that territory, they're going to have things to do. And now the mechanism is just changed. So the receptionist is still going to greet you. But instead of greeting you, when you come into the physical office, you're going to have that person greet you in the waiting room, your Zoom Room, and then there's going to be a period of time where they have a pleasant conversation, you're not going to offer them something to drink, obviously. But you are going to make sure that they're comfortable, that they're prepared for their consultation, that they're prepared to meet with your attorney that they have everything that they need in front of them, they've got pen and paper. And then you're going to have the next professional come in and greet them and take over from that point. So you're still going to have this owning your zone mentality. It's just now going to be handled electronically. And frankly, we have experienced, you know, in addition to law from mentor, I own my own law firm, I still own my multimillion dollar law firm. And we have experienced that clients are actually starting to say, you know, I really prefer this I prefer not having to take the whole afternoon off of work to physically drive to the office said wait meet have a good experience but still have to take time out. I love being able to just log in, do what I got to do and log back out and go back to work in an hour as opposed to three or four hours or maybe not even getting back at all.
Steve Fretzin 15:01
Yeah. So it sounds like I mean, there's a lot of inefficiencies that you identify and then and then work to solve. Are there one or two others that you that you generally see attorneys making missteps on? And then we can talk about solving those?
Allison Williams 15:17
Yeah, well, so one of my personal favorites with lawyers is that I think a lot of us have a mindset of if you are the boss, the managing partner, or the owner of that you have to be available to everyone at everyone's beck and call. And I am very much opposed to that, I say you need to have a closed door policy, you need to have an open floor policy. So that means everything gets scheduled, you get on my calendar, but when you have my time, you have my time, you don't have me answering emails, you don't have my computer screens on, you don't have the phone accessible. When you get my time, it's uninterrupted time. And it's time to deal with a problem. And what you find is that people, when they start to learn that process, they become highly efficient in utilizing the time that they have, because they know it's in limited supply. The other thing that I see lawyers doing as a real problem is when they're thinking about how to set up their work, they're often thinking that everything is their responsibility. And again, their plate kind of gets too full. And then it's time to hire somebody. But they oftentimes don't think about monetizing the role before they bring someone in. So it's almost like, Alright, I'm going to lose money when I hire this person. Because if I'm doing it all in making $400,000 a year, as soon as I hire a staff person, and I pay that person 50, I'm making 350. And the reality is, that's just not true. If you bring in the staff person, that's that person is taking things off of your plate so that you can make six, or they're an economically billable role. So ultimately, whether it's a billable hour, or a flat fee case, or subscription model, they're adding economic value to your firm. So ultimately, the firm's revenue is growing through them. And if you don't structure your business that way, before you hire people, then you get into the habit of hiring people, they cost you money, you're resentful of them. And then when they don't, when they don't do something perfectly the first time you're like, Alright, well, I'm already costing, you're already costing me money, so you need to go. And that then creates a series of turnover and, and really just exhaustion. People say I can't grow because people aren't good enough. But really, what's happening is you're you're treating people as a, an indispensable commodity that can be shuffled from place to place, and that doesn't yield the type of result for most people that they desire for their firm.
Steve Fretzin 17:25
Yeah, that's, that's, that's exactly right in. The other thing that people may not recognize is that there's a lot of new software's coming out, that can help improve efficiency, delegation, etc. are there one or two specifically that you either recommend or like regularly get people on to so that they can get organized and make sure that they're efficient with their day or efficient with how they're running their practice?
Allison Williams 17:49
Yeah, so I'm glad that you raised technology, there's there's a lot of different tools on the market. But one of the things I always tell people is that the most underutilized software that we have is typically our practice management software. So most lawyers have some form of practice management software, whether it's Clio or rocket Mater, or my case or practice Panther, you know, there's, there's, there's dozens of them, I'm just kind of rattling off some of the most popular, but in each of those, there is a document automation system built in. And so document automation is the way of the future, if you think that you're going to lose some of the some of the brilliance that comes out of your legal mind, if you're going to have a form that's going to create it for you, you're mistaken, because someone is going to have to, you know, engineer that form the same way, you would have to engineer it from scratch if you were doing it that way. But ultimately, having those things set up where you can pre template, you can code in information, you can pull cases and pull chunks of information that you need to prepare documents, contracts. That's really the wave of the future. The other thing that's really helpful is that there are a lot of task management systems out there. So you've got Trello, you've got Asana, you've got Monday, comm a lot of these resources actually make it a lot easier for you to automate passing work back and forth. So that when you have your practice management software, if you don't want to delegate through that mechanism, you can create projects for people, maybe you've got some part time team members, maybe you've got virtual staff, they can simply log in and take on a project and you can see where the project is in process so that if God forbid somebody quits midstream, or you have to fire them, or if somebody even just get sick and has to take time off, you know, COVID we know a lot of people have had to quarantine, somebody can drop the ball, so to speak, and have somebody else pick it up midstream because you have a tracing of what's happened from soup to nuts. So a lot of those software tools are out there and I tell people, you know, you're never gonna know which one works for you unless you go out there and start demoing.
Steve Fretzin 19:47
Yeah, and I'm, you know, an older person, I guess. I don't know 50 if that's considered older, I think it is
Allison Williams 19:54
That characterization based on my own age but okay..
Steve Fretzin 19:57
I was I was a spring chicken not so long ago. I got turned on to acuity, which is a scheduling software. And I'm not, I'm not giving them a shameless plug, but I will tell you that it has been amazingly refreshing and efficient for me. Because the idea that I have to give you, you know, hey, let's get together, Allison, you say, Sure, then I get back to you with some dates, you say those dates don't work, then you give me some dates, they don't work. Well, I'm already like three or four emails deep into this dialog, and acuity essentially gives you access to my calendar. And it's good thing I figured out, I have to add a lunch break in there, because initially, I was getting scheduled breaks, when am I gonna get bathroom breaks? What am I getting eat, so I'm trying to break it up a little bit. But the idea that you can, that you can really open up banks of time that you make available for prospective clients or clients or whatever. And then they can pick a time that works for them. And it just has completely ended my back and forth with people scheduling in which has saved me, I don't know if I probably should do some some data on that. But it's got to be hours and hours a week that I'm saving by not having, it's not for everybody. But for me, it's been a game changer.
Allison Williams 21:07
Yeah, I use schedule once, which basically does the same thing. And schedule once actually connects with zoom. So when someone goes on to my scheduler, a unique zoom ID gets populated so that they don't just get the invitation to whatever the time is that they booked. But they also get the zoom ID the same way that I got your acuity ID for today. And they also get a calendar invite. So that like as soon as the invitation is going, they've got it like right there in front of them. A lot of these tools are making life a whole lot easier for lawyers. And frankly, it does not just save you time, it also saves you money. Because if you weren't doing all that back and forth by email your staff person was, and now you're not having to pay for that. So yeah, definitely a great resource.
Steve Fretzin 21:48
Yeah, no doubt. And then the other technology that I am not using too often with my clients, and none of this is a shame on me situation, but is a CRM, I really want to get my clients or in myself, by the way, I'm not on one. I've tried like three and again, being an old person. I'm struggling with them. But I just had Matt Spiegel on the on the show not so long ago. Who does law maddix. But have you had any experience getting people or success getting lawyers on to a CRM, which is a client relationship management tool, though, by the way?
Allison Williams 22:18
Yeah. So I highly recommend CRM to all of my clients. We talked about this in one of our signature retreats, marketing for the masters. And my clients that are in law firm mentor, we teach them about different tools that they can use based on the size of their firm so that they can grow and their database can grow. You know, there's a lot of them that are out there. And the one that that I personally use is HubSpot. And I like HubSpot because it connects the client relationship portal, right you kind of have the hub, which is the client at the center. And then you have all of your marketing assets in a separate location and you have your sales pipeline in a different location. So from the time someone gets entered into our database, we know every piece of content they've consumed, we know what time they've opened their emails, we know whether or not they have opted in, we know how long they stayed on a web page landing page. And then once they are in the sales conversation with us from the time they go through intake, to the time that they ultimately become a client. We knew how long that takes. So it helps us trace how long the sales cycle is, which is really important. Because lawyers oftentimes, you know miscalculate how much it actually costs them to acquire a client from the time you start putting content out in social media to the time that you start having conversations with them online to getting them onto your email newsletter to getting them ultimately to hire you. There is a time period and there's an average time period across all of your clients and all of your different practice areas. And if you aren't tracing that, then it's very hard to predict that if I started marketing activity in January, and my looking to get clients in March, April, September, December, how long does it take so that I know when I'm spending money and I'm spending time when I'm going to get the return on that investment and whether or not the investment is worth the cost of the client based on how much I'm charging the client for the service. Alright, so
Steve Fretzin 24:07
I have two follow up questions on that. Number one is how simple or challenging slash complicated is it to get a HobSpot for example to work for you? I'm assuming you're using it correct?
Allison Williams 24:21
Well, I use it in both my law firm and okay.
Steve Fretzin 24:24
So that's the first question like how easy or complicated was it for you to get it set up? And then the other question, the follow up is out of 10 clients that you make that recommendation how many are actively open to pursuing it because I found them to be lawyers to be generally opposed to, you know, CRMs and things like that because it's like hard enough to just track their time and track their their day. Now here's another software on top of that, that they get, you know, that can become kind of frustrating. So I want to hear your take on that.
Allison Williams 24:54
Sure. So the first question of how long did it take me I said it took me zero minutes because I did not choose to be in That is something that I recommend for all lawyers. Listen, I'm in my 40s, you know, you're 50, I get my 20 somethings to deal with the technology. They learn it faster, they understand it differently, they grew up with it in a way that I did not. So you know, and for lawyers out there that are solopreneurs, or maybe you're light on staff, you don't have a lot of resources, you can find low cost freelancers all over the place. In fact, we work with a company called pineapple staffing. And pineapple actually allows they have a staffing agency that sources, virtual assistants from the Philippines at $8 an hour. So you can and these are college educated people. And just so that, you know, because I am highly committed to not abusing people through the monetary system $8 an hour over there is far above minimum wage. So you're paying people a good wage there. And what is a cost of living increase for them. And of course, here is a very low cost. But you can you can staff that either through pineapple or even through Upwork freelancer, comm people per hour those different sites where you can project basis. But a lot of the CRMs actually have people as a part of the onboarding process that will teach you how to customize. If you don't get someone on the team to customize, there are companies out there that do legal tech customization. So I know streamline legal is one company, Melanie Leonard is the owner of that company. She's a lawyer that now does legal tech, and she helps lawyers with customizing their software working with their software. There's also Chelsea Lambert, Chelsea owns Lex tech. And you know, she again, does the customization of software. So there are solutions out there, you just have to look for them. But I highly recommend that someone else do it. Now on the second question, lawyers being difficult as we are, one of the things that I always tell people is that you should not wait to you know, I'm going to, I'm going to try to temper my language because I'm not on my own podcast, I'm not going to use my normal potty mouth. You have to temper your your own problems, but you have to be aware of them to know that you can work around your problems before you solve them. Okay, so I'm never someone who says don't fix the problem of being resistant or not malleable to change or not amenable to new ideas. That is something that ultimately will make you more successful in life than not, however, until you get there farm it out, right work around your problem. So for a lot of my clients, I tell them listen, you don't have to be the one who learns the software, you don't have to be the one who customizes the templates, or who imports the information or who builds out the system. But you need to have somebody once it's built out, who can teach it to you in kind of like, you know, math for dummies calm, right? You need to, you need to have somebody like dumb it down to one plus one equals two, so that you can use it enough that if you have to replace the person who's ultimately working that software, it becomes easier. But nowadays, I find that a lot of vendors, whether it's marketing companies, when you get to a point where you can hire a search engine optimization company, or even the freelancers, a lot of them are certified in different software. And so the more popular your software tool is like MailChimp, or constant contact or HubSpot or ontraport, the more you're going to be able to find people that can work in it. And it doesn't have to be your problem. So most of our clients do actually adapt it because they didn't they see that they don't have to be the one who's doing the work.
Steve Fretzin 28:35
Yeah, this is all great stuff. And again, you know, any lawyer that's listening to this, you know, you should be scrolling down notes because she's giving you gem after gem after gem kind of in wrapping up. Allison, how do people get in touch with you? So they want to improve their processes, their structures, their sales, their marketing, they'd like your help as the law firm mentor, how do they get in touch with you?
Allison Williams 28:56
Well, so the easiest way is to go onto our website, which is law firm mentor dotnet. But you can also find us on our podcast, the crushing chaos with law firm mentor podcast and there we have experts just like you and a host of other experts talking about these different topics that can really add value for lawyers. Now of course, we're all over social media. We do have a Facebook group, the law firm mentor movement, where we go live every Thursday talking to our to our different experts and providing valuable trainings on how to optimize your business of law.
Steve Fretzin 29:27
Yeah, that's wonderful. Thank you so much and thanks for coming on the show today and sharing your expertise with my audience much appreciated.
Allison Williams 29:33
Thank you for having me Steven. I hope everyone got great value out of this. Have a great day.
Steve Fretzin 29:37
I know they did I know they did because I did I have at least a half a page notes already of things I need to follow up on you know pineapple staffing, streamline, legal. I got a whole list of things I got to I got to talk to you about after the fact. Listen, everybody, I hope this was helpful. I know it was for me and I really think it is for you. And again, the goal here is to is to make sure that you're one step closer to being that lawyer Someone who's confident organized in a skilled Rainmaker. Take care everybody be safe.
Narrator 30:09
Thanks for listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for grilling a successful law firm. Visit Steve's website Fretzin.com. For additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today's episode, check out today's show notes.